The History Book Club discussion

The Bonfire: The Siege and Burning of Atlanta

by Marc Wortman

Remember we use spoiler html on a single thread discussion. This discussion can begin on September 5th if folks are ready. The discussions are open ended. We place a beginning and end date on the discussion but both dates are always open ended and you can read the book as you like with a group of like minded members. We do need one person to step up to the plate and move the discussion along and I assume that would be you Tom. If it isn't let me know.

Thanks and Enjoy.

Remember the following:

Everyone is welcome but make sure to use the goodreads spoiler function.

If you come to the discussion after folks have finished reading it, please feel free to post your comments as we will always come back to the thread to discuss the book.

The rules

You must follow the rules of the History Book Club and also:

First rule of Buddy Read,
Respect other people's opinions, no matter how controversial you think they may be.

Second rule of Buddy Read,
Always, always Chapter/page mark and spoiler alert your posts if you are discussing parts of the book.

To do these spoilers, follows these easy steps;


Step 1. enclose the word spoiler in forward and back arrows; < >

Step 2. write your spoiler comments in

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(view spoiler)

Chapter 1
(view spoiler)[This is a sample (hide spoiler)]

And please mark your spoiler clearly like this;

State a Chapter and page if you can.
EG: Chapter 24, page 154

Or say Up to Chapter *___ (*insert chapter number) if your comment is more broad and not from a single chapter.

Examples of spoiler;
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(view spoiler)[This is a test. (hide spoiler)]

About the Book - Goodreads Synopsis:

The destruction of Atlanta is an iconic moment in American history-it was the centerpiece of Gone with the Wind. But though the epic sieges of Leningrad, Stalingrad, and Berlin have all been explored in bestselling books, the one great American example has been treated only cursorily in more general histories. Marc Wortman remedies that conspicuous absence in grand fashion with The Bonfire, an absorbing narrative history told through the points of view of key participants both Confederate and Union. The Bonfire reveals an Atlanta of unexpected paradoxes: a new mercantile city dependent on the primitive institution of slavery; governed by a pro-Union mayor, James Calhoun, whose cousin was a famous defender of the South. When he surrendered the city to General Sherman after forty-four terrible days, Calhoun was accompanied by Bob Yancey, a black slave likely the son of Union advocate Daniel Webster. Atlanta was both the last of the medieval city sieges and the first modern urban devastation. From its ashes, a new South would arise.

Testing spoiler (view spoiler)[ He dies at the end (hide spoiler)]

Looking forward to reading this :)

Well good we have two folks along with Tom. Aussie Rick, could you contact Tom and let him know that the thread is up and ready and that a requirement is that the requester is the moderator for the read and must post to keep the discussion going, etc, using the spoiler html. Unfortunately, we do not have the ability to moderate all of the buddy reads that folks want to do so we need them to step up to the plate. As in all buddy reads, you are the back up person if Tom needs assistance. If he needs any assistance, we are there to help him. Thanks.

Thanks for setting this up Bentley.

Looking forward to reading this too :)

Great Tom, glad that I can count on you to moderate this discussion and move things along. I am sure that it will be an interesting read and conversation.

I'm enjoying the book so far and the author has taken the trouble to take us back some time before the start of the Civil War to give us some background on Georgia, the development of Atlanta from a small village to the 'Gate City' and some of the main personalties involved in Atlanta's growth and I dare say its destruction. What do other readers think of the author's approach, taking too long to get into the siege and battle itself or do others enjoy this build up?

I am just getting started in the book. I like it so far, the first chapter pulled me in. A bit early to know if I like the authors apporach. I read somewhere that only 1/3 of the book is on the war and the siege.

Hi Tom, I think you'll find that that is most likely correct but he tells you a good story to keep you interested.

I'm just starting the book & look forward to the discussion.
~Debye

Question: will we be reading the book in sections together? Such as pages 1-200 during this week, 201-400 the next....just wondering. I'm flexible. :-)

I would say, read at your own pace.

It would be nice to try to regroup and discuss some when everyone is done, in 4-5 weeks or sooner. If anyone else is joining us let us know so we can wait for you.

In the mean time, feel free to discuss anything that catches you attention. Just use spoiler tags and mention the chapter or page if you are mentioning anything too revealing.

I was just going to read it through. It will probably be the end of next week or next weekend when I finish the book.

I'd be interested to hear from those folks in the United States what they think of the chapter on the Indian removals from their lands in this book?

I enjoyed this incident from the book, page 142, Chapter - 'Speculation'.

(view spoiler)[".... simmering anger at speculators inevitably boiled over into violence. An Atlanta woman racing through town in a buggy ran over what she thought to be a soldier. She pulled up in horror and turned back to look at the prostrate man. When she recognized him as an 'extortioner' she whipped her horse on, 'regretting that her buggy wheels had not run over his neck'." (hide spoiler)]

Some Thoughts on the Synopsis

(view spoiler)[I haven't read the book yet, but I do take issue with one of the phrases in the synopsis. Referring to the siege of Atlanta as 'America's one great example' seems to be totally ignoring the siege of Vicksburg (May 18 - July 4 1863) and the siege of Petersburg (June 9 1864 - March 25 1865). Both of these sieges (although Petersburg was more an attempt at siege by Grant and Lee's brilliant prevention of it) were more strategically relevant to the outcome of the war even though the publicity of the Atlanta siege practically assured Lincoln's re-election.

Also the phrase 'the destruction of Atlanta...it was the centrepiece of Gone With The Wind'? What you see in the film, and what Mitchell seems to ignore in her book, is that the bit where Scarlett is escaping from Atlanta, is in the middle of a fire started on the orders of the Confederate commander, John Bell Hood, to deny military stores to Sherman's army.
(view spoiler)[The actual destruction of the town didn't happen until Nov 1864 and after Sherman had ordered the evacuation of the city. (hide spoiler)]

Another phrase I take issue with is 'has been treated only cursorily in more general histories'

The history of the siege of Atlanta has been covered pretty well in in the bibliography of the Civil War.

Sherman's Battle for Atlanta by Jacob Dolson Cox - he actually took part in the campaign.

War Like the Thunderbolt: The Battle and Burning of Atlanta by Russell S. Bonds

Guide to the Atlanta Campaign: Rocky Face Ridge to Kennesaw Mountain by Jay Luvaas and Harold W. Nelson

and I think that Shelby Foote in his book The Civil War: Red River to Appomattox, Vol. 3 would be concerned to know that anyone thought he handled anything 'cursorily'

End of rant. Sorry. (hide spoiler)]

Guys make sure to place your text since this is only a single thread discussion inside spoiler html as defined in message two.

And Tim, I can understand your views but folks have asked to read this together so if you would like to join in - that is great - otherwise please remember to place your text etc. in spoilers so as not to ruin the read for other folks. We ask folks to do that in any case.

Just call your segment as an example:

Some Thoughts on the Synopsis

(view spoiler)[Then you could place the remainder of your discourse and adds here within the spoiler (hide spoiler)]

If you could edit message 17 that would be a big help Tim; we like various perspectives but we ask folks to use spoiler html and put a title or chapter and page heading which identifies the contents, etc.

Thanks in advance.

Tim wrote: "Some Thoughts on the Synopsis
..."

Good points, that does sound a bit much.. here's the one from my paperback edition The Bonfire.

The Bonfire is the epic story of the besieged city and its townspeople, and of how Atlanta came to be the key to the South. The most terrible city siege in American history took place in Atlanta in 1864.

Nothing was quite what it seemed in Civil War Atlanta: Sherman, who made Georgia howl, was as unreconstructed a racist at the end of the war as at the beginning; Union troops and Confederate forces laughed and sang together from opposite ends of the Chattahoochee River before slaughtering each other in the hellacious final conflict; Atlanta's Mayor Calhoun remained a staunch believer in the Union despite waging war against it; and a handful of slaves-like Bob Yancey, who surrendered the city to Sherman's forces alongside the town's leading citizens-exited the war freed of slavery's yoke, and among the wealthiest citizens of a devastated city that would become the engine of the New South. With the compelling, interwoven, and often surprising life stories of a colorful cast of characters, Marc Wortman recreates the age, city, and siege where the Confederacy met its destiny.

aside from the "most terrible city siege" not quite so bad.

Thanks so much Tim for your cooperation.

Tom, you might want to put your comments about the paperback edition synopsis, etc. in a spoiler.

Since it is not a chapter - just call it

Synopsis - Paperback edition

(view spoiler)[Then put all of the text here. (hide spoiler)]

Not that what you have copied is a spoiler.

I found this section from the book on pages 203-204, chapter - Railroad War, very interesting reading:

(view spoiler)[Many of the troops who had deserted did so out of concern for the well-being of their wives and children. Letters from home told the men of their destitution. The heartsick soldiers felt powerless to help them. An Atlantan silenced the women in town. Their own pens, he told them, squeezed the firing squad triggers. “You had better let the last crumb of bread disappear from your table,” he advised, “and then pray to God and trust Him for more, than to write anything to your relatives in the army that will make their lot harder to bear, and by your continual complaints at last lead him in very desperation, to desert from the army and bring upon themselves dishonor and a disgraceful death.” He called upon the women to sacrifice their own lives before condemning their men to a worse fate. “If needs be, you had better die, even by starvation, than bring dishonor and an ignominious death upon those you love.”

Such calls for silence were galling when the contrast was so great between the wealth of Atlanta’s merchant and industrial aristocracy and the grinding poverty of its vast pool of poor labouring women and children. The letters continued. (hide spoiler)]

I found the description of the old Chickamauga battlefield by Private Charles Benton, 150th New York Infantry vivid in detail. Page 216, chapter 'Candle Ends':

(view spoiler)[More than half a year had passed. The stench of decaying flesh still hung in the air. Whitening skeletal remains lay scattered throughout the miles of battlefield. The hastily dug shallow graves of the dead showed protruding shoes with foot bones visible inside. Here and there, granite-color mummified hands reached from the ground. He noted one with its index finger pointing skywards. He picked up a skull by the roadside. A smooth, round hole peeked through it. "Small it was," he noted, "but yet large enough to let life pass out." (hide spoiler)]

I enjoyed the account on page 272, chapter 'The Battle of Atlanta', when a maid found an unexploded bomb in the back yard:

(view spoiler)[Curious about the unknown object that had fallen in the garden, a young maid took a shovel and dug it up. She proudly carried her prize into the house to exhibit to the doctor's family. When they spied the detonator cap on its end and realized the shell was still live, they fled in terror. She was ordered to take the bomb back outside into the garden, where nobody dare touch it again for years afterwards. (hide spoiler)]

How is everyone else going with the book, what do you think of the author's style of writing and the story so far?

'Aussie Rick' wrote: "How is everyone else going with the book, what do you think of the author's style of writing and the story so far?"

enjoying it, about 1/3 through.

Hi Tom, he does tell a good story doesn't he, links everyone to each other and the city. I will wait till you get to the battles around Atlanta with Joe Johnston and Hood to discuss those with you.

Hi Debye, how are you going with the book so far?

Hi Rick,
Actually haven't had the chance to start it yet, but my schedule tells me 8 begin this Friday afternoon. I have a lot book clubs (work-related) so I schedule times/days to read certain books so I get them all read. A touch OCD, but it works! :-D

Thanks for asking. I'll be posting my thoughts soon.

Hi Debye, you sound like a very busy person! The good thing about this buddy read thread is that you can read at your own pace. We will look forward to your observatiosn on the book when you get started :)

I found this story of one of the inhabitants of Atlanta who had found safety underground but returned to his house to care for his sick daughter very sad, page 294, chapter ‘Goodbye, Johnny’:

(view spoiler)[”In the first week of August, though, little Lizzie fell ill, and Warner, fearing the dampness of the well would further sicken the frail girl, decided to return to his own bed with his daughter beside him. In the middle of the night, the woman helper awoke with a start to the sound of groaning coming from Warner’s room. She rushed in to find the room demolished and a still hot shell lying unexploded on the floor. The bomb had plunged down through the bed killing the little girl instantly. Her father lay there with both legs severed. He had a few minutes to write out his will before he died.

A heavy bombardment commenced shortly after that. With ‘the missiles of death … flying in every direction,’ the distraught servant left the pair lying in their blood-soaked deathbed. She grabbed her own young son sleeping soundly in bed and dragged him down the ladder to the shelter deep in the well. Once there, she fell apart. ‘I sat down and wept, crying at the top of my voice, but there was no one to come to my relief, or even hear me’.” (hide spoiler)]

Short bibliography of books referenced.

just a few books i may want to follow up on later..

BY James M. McPherson

BY Lloyd Lewis

BY Thomas G. Dyer

9/25

by Albert E. Castel

"Guarding the gate city from itself" (work in progress) by Robert Scott Davis

Enjoying the book when I can read it. My schedule has been a little crazy lately, so making slow progress and haven't been able to comment. Hope to find a little more time this weekend.

Hi Tom, glad to hear that you are still enjoying the book, we will look forward to your comments once you get a bit more time :)

'Aussie Rick' wrote: "I'd be interested to hear from those folks in the United States what they think of the chapter on the Indian removals from their lands in this book?"

(view spoiler)[
I like Speckled Snakes quote on pp 28
"I have heard a great many talks from out great father..."

seems representitve of so many indian removals repeated so many times.


(hide spoiler)]

Some of the internal chaos of Atlanta has been interesting.

Chapters 10 - 15

(view spoiler)[
The girls visit to the old school, then a hospital was interesting. (The Dead House pp 162-3)

Some of the exploits of Lee were interesting

(hide spoiler)]

Some of Shermans quotes in letters to his wife have been nice.


pp 231 Roman Runagees
(view spoiler)[
"To realize what was is one should follow our tracks"
(hide spoiler)]

pp 250 Prayers
(view spoiler)[
"I begin to regard the death and mangling to a couple thousand men as a small affair, a kind of morning dash"
(hide spoiler)]

Some great sections mentioned from the book there Tom. What did you think of the author's coverage of the battles around Atlanta? I felt like I wanted a bit more detail of the fighting between the opposing forces. What did you think?

'Aussie Rick' wrote: "Some great sections mentioned from the book there Tom. What did you think of the author's coverage of the battles around Atlanta? I felt like I wanted a bit more detail of the fighting between the ..."

I thought that the battles were brief. a liitle more detail or a few more ancedotes would have been nice

finally finnished :)

anyone else still reading or going to read?

I finished as well and like you I would have preferred more detail about the battles fought around and for Atlanta, it was more a social history than a military history but still an enjoyable read.

were there any books referenced that you added to your TBR list?

i posted a few in my earlier post 31

I have a few books at home in my library (I'm at work at the moment) that I have read but also quite a few that I am yet to read including this one you posted:

by Albert E. Castel

'Aussie Rick' wrote: "I have a few books at home in my library (I'm at work at the moment) that I have read but also quite a few that I am yet to read including this one ..."

that does look like a good one, i dont have a copy of it yet, will have to get one soon.

by Albert E. Castel

some of the passages descibing the wounded, medicine, amputations, etc.. were kinda interesting - difficult to imagine

'Aussie Rick' wrote: "I enjoyed the account on page 272, chapter 'The Battle of Atlanta', when a maid found an unexploded bomb in the back yard:

[spoilers removed]"

i enjoyed that section too,

I totally bombed on reading this book in the buddy read and I sincerely apologize for that. It won't happen again.

Hiya Debya, don't worry too much about it, it happens to all of us at one time or another :)