Passion discussion

So, every time Luce went to a different life of hers throughout the book, she would say that Daniel looked different: his bone structure, his muscles, his skin color, etc.

What confuses me is that Daniel is an angel so that means he should look the same no matter what. Why would he change during each lifetime? It's not like he is being reborn as well. Why would his physical appearance be changing? Only Luce's should be.

Did anybody else notice this?...

I did. I just assumed that maybe it looked different with the eras clothing style. I'm probably wrong, but that's what I would guess.

Yeah, that's what I thought at first but I remember reading the time where she goes to the Mayan Empire or whatever and she was describing Daniel like he was physically different somehow. Like his bone structure was different and everything. It could just be me though :P

Veronica is right. Daniel only different during his Mayan Empire. Luce described him with brown hair and totally different profile. She recognised his soul, the same soul Daniel always has.
In China, I think both of them have different appearances. Luce was different while Daniel was described to have olive skin. I think Daniel was Chinese too because it is totally impossible to have a westerner that time.

True. Thanks for reminding me, you guys!

Yeah, that's kind of what got to me during the book. I couldn't understand how he fit into all of these civilizations over the time. Author error?...

Veronica wrote: "Yeah, that's kind of what got to me during the book. I couldn't understand how he fit into all of these civilizations over the time. Author error?..."

Because Daniel is an angel. If a thousand years vampire could adjust to the current situation and so does a fairy, An angel should be able to outlive them in a better way...:)

I think that if that were the case, the author would have described this to us. I've never read a book where an angel was able to alter his/her appearance.

And yes, a vampire can adjust behaviorally and by maybe getting a little tan. I don't think they can physically change their body structure and such...

Actually, angel can change his appearance. Gabriel can disguise himself as someone else and can only let out words without any visible body. That is not fiction.

So Daniel could cange himself into a totally different person. It matters not because he still has the same soul. His body may wither due to time but his soul remains intact.

Btw...I do not think a vampire can get a little tan. They remain the same as they were when they were changed. They can not change because they are dead.

Well I am in no way religious so I don't know about Gabriel. I guess I just would have liked to author to explain it to me instead of just going along with it. Just because you read a book about angels doesn't mean you know about them.

I can not say I am religious but I read religious books except anything about Jew, I can't find any in my country.

You know, I never even gave this any thought. I assumed that because Daniel lived in a former life, his exterior would be different too. The first few lives I actually think he didn't even look all that different.
Angels *technically* don't even HAVE an exterior. Not the way we know it anyway. They're like a glow, they don't have bodies. Not even sexes for that matter, they're neither man, nor woman... You can find this info all over the net and in books. It's spiritual knowledge.
Daniel just took a shape because it's easier when roaming planet Earth. And therefore he could change his appearance too, as needed. Luce recognized his soul no matter what.

Yeah I thought the same thing. I was like, isn't he an angel? Why does his appearance change? What's going on here?! I too wish the author explained why this is possible rather than just having it happen. I was really confused everytime he was described as looking different. WEIRD.

Anna wrote: "Yeah I thought the same thing. I was like, isn't he an angel? Why does his appearance change? What's going on here?! I too wish the author explained why this is possible rather than just having it ..."

Yeah, if only she went over it.

Yes it would of been nice to have had it explained but I just presumed his appearance changed because it would be completely suss to have a caucasian man running aroung in china way back when lol

he might have changed on purpose to fit in, i mean bill well lucifer could change into whatever he wanted like in the announcer when he turned into daniel.

What I want to know is why did future Satan drop future Luce right when he got to where the Angels were falling? I thought the whole point was he planned on capturing all of them and sticking them all in neverwhere. Why would he drop Luce so Daniel could catch her? If he held on to her, the fallen Angels from the future would have no idea of his plan and no hope of stopping it. It makes no sense.

Veronica wrote: "So, every time Luce went to a different life of hers throughout the book, she would say that Daniel looked different: his bone structure, his muscles, his skin color, etc.

What confuses me is ..."

yh...that was a bit confusing....i mean i couldn't understand it when i was reading the book!

Nurlely wrote: "I can not say I am religious but I read religious books except anything about Jew, I can't find any in my country."

sori grl, but lol!

What country is that? haha.

Geraldine wrote: "sori grl, but lol!"

Hahaha....it's okay. I just do not understand why we need to bother ourselves with Angel's definition when reading Fallen series. It will mess up the enjoying part of reading it. I think Fallen is good enough to make me believe that Daniel is a true angel and that is what angel is supposed to be. I surely do not want to mess my head by reading my religious book and compare them.

Did I mess my head by thinking that Harry Potter really lives in UK? Nope. I just enjoyed reading the series and be happy about it...:)

Veronica wrote: "What country is that? haha."

I am in Indonesia. We have Islam, Protestants (with various kinds), Catholics, Buddhist, Hindu and Kong Hu.

Do you have any knowledge regarding South-East Asian countries? We ban any Israelis here due to terrible history.

Nope, I've never liked studying Asian history/culture. I like European history/culture.

Ok. We only have world history here not specifically each continent's history. But since I love reading, I read any kinds of books...:)

Yeah, we have world history too I just like more subjects better than others :P

Yeah, I find this weird, too. IF the theory that angels can take any shape/form, then I would only expect that Cam, Roland, and other demons could have already used that ability in the earlier books to deceive Luce. But, no... nothing like that was mentioned in the earlier books.

So, I'm another confused one.

Cristine wrote: "Yeah, I find this weird, too. IF the theory that angels can take any shape/form, then I would only expect that Cam, Roland, and other demons could have already used that ability in the earlier book..."

It is no use if the demons used other forms to trick Luce since she can see Daniel' soul. Cam did try his trick because he thought he could change their fate. But according to Arriane, Cam had done nothing but damages with that. Since Arriane and Gabbe are strong, it is not likely that Cam would trick Luce anytime he felt like doing. Roland will not help Cam if Gabbe stands in the way.

Is it just me but did anyone else hate that about the book? I honestly, didn't like how they changed appearances. Especially when they were Chinese. I guess it makes sense why I just didn't like it.
I'd rather they stayed the same appearance wise. It makes sense if they are more tan in some times or pale. etc but to have their whole appearance change just ruins it for me.
Like the Chinese era... they could have been in a different geopgraphical era at that time that would of made it possible to have their normal appearance.

WHAT I HAVE A QUESTION ON IS:
So if Daniel and Luce can change their physical appearance to go with the times, why is it that when it is not called for... they snap right back into their current appearance. Black long hair, pale of blonde hair, gray eyes? In Russia they had these appearances, in China they didn't, and currently they do? Why not change their appearance everytime? The author needs to make up her mind.

OH AND...
If the angels could change their appearance... why didn't Roland become white in the European era. As I remember he was working while all the other angels, Arriane/etc were off doing what they wish.

i just thought he changed to fit in with everyone else's look. wait, and can't angels change the way they look anyways. its not that big of a deal that he looks different. he's still Daniel, that's all Luce cared about.

I'm just mad that she didn't explain it. An author should explain why he is able to change appearance instead of assume that the readers know angel lore.

Rachael wrote: "...Black long hair, pale of blonde hair, gray eyes? In Russia they had these appearances, in China they didn't, and currently they do? Why not change their appearance everytime? The author needs to make up her mind. "

I have no idea what Lauren Kate is thinking, and it would be outstandingly boring if so. Why would I bother read something that has no mystery at all?

Daniel and Luce did not necessarily change their appearances. Their looks were acceptable in most countries. Not so in Mayan era or China era. It would be totally absurd if so. How can the white skin manage to survive in China? An alien?

I think Ms Kate has lots of references to make her wrote that way.

Veronica wrote: "I'm just mad that she didn't explain it. An author should explain why he is able to change appearance instead of assume that the readers know angel lore."

Ms Kate might write something about that. It is not necessarily explained in the story. The amazing series The Lord of the Ring has The Hobbits for us to know more about them.

Rachael wrote: "... why didn't Roland become white in the European era. As I remember he was working while all the other angels, Arriane/etc were off doing what..."

Why would Roland do that? No one can see the angels unless the angels want them too. And what is the advantages of having white skin for him?

Nurlely wrote: "Rachael wrote: "... why didn't Roland become white in the European era. As I remember he was working while all the other angels, Arriane/etc were off doing what..."

Why would Roland do that? No on..."

Because of the era they were in. There is a part specifically in the book. I believe it was the time that Luce was, what's a good word... "less nice". In Europe somewhere. There is conversation relating to it that Luce has with Roland about it. I think they were in a kitchen of some sort and Bill hides in some bubbles so he isn't seen by Roland when he walks in.

Rachael wrote: "...There is conversation relating to it that Luce has with Roland about it. I think they were in a kitchen of some sort and Bill hides in some bubbles so he isn't seen by Roland when he walks in. "

Why would Roland change? Except if it is totally absurd to have black people as servants during the era. If it is not, then having Roland changed into a different someone is useless. The journey was about Luce and Daniel. For Luce to understand that she would always recognize Daniel no matter how he looked like.
All the angels were there because they were dragged into Daniel and Luce's fate. I still have not got the whole thing about the process. Rapture will probably satisfy my hunger.

While it's true that Daniel is an angel, there isn't any particular rule that says he can't change his appearance to blend in with the local population while waiting for Luce to reappear. He's drawn to where she'll be, and it makes sense that he should be able to adjust his appearance to suit the one Luce will pop into or he'd sorta stick out like a sore thumb. He'd want to reflect the conditions Luce would be in so she could identify with him. At least that's what I gather.

I thought about that, too. It left me a tad confused. .-.

also, since when are the fallen angels burned if they step into a church? i mean, didn't they have to 'swim' in the church/pool at sword and cross?

Anna wrote: "also, since when are the fallen angels burned if they step into a church? i mean, didn't they have to 'swim' in the church/pool at sword and cross?"

Not all fallen angels are prohibited inside the holy places, only the ones who clearly joined the Hell. Cam had sided Lucifer, so he could not step into any holy places. He might be burnt or else.
The holy places represent anything that oppose the dark side. Has any of Cam or Roland or Molly stepped into the church? I think I probably missed that part.

Nurlely wrote: "Anna wrote: "also, since when are the fallen angels burned if they step into a church? i mean, didn't they have to 'swim' in the church/pool at sword and cross?"

Not all fallen angels are prohibit..."

ok, yeah, thats so true, thanks so much :)

I have one question. How could all the not-being-baptized create a loophole in Lucy's reincarnations? She lived BC (Before Christ!) and could not be baptized in that period.

Dana, what an excellent question!!! Too bad we can't ask the author!

Pauline, it fells to me, that author already forgot about that)

Dana wrote: "I have one question. How could all the not-being-baptized create a loophole in Lucy's reincarnations? She lived BC (Before Christ!) and could not be baptized in that period."

I have a theory for that. Daniel and other angels were banished from Heaven after the 'war' between Heaven and hell. Being baptized means being pure in and after the Christ era. But God has always been there, far before Christ era. There should be something to be called being purity ever since the beginning of the day. Maybe not purity in Christian way, but the baptize theory was brought up to Luce's previous lives, not too far away back when she was probably raised as a Christian.

That's mine. I didn't actually care about that loophole before you raised it. That's a good question Dana. Maybe you can write to Lauren Kate or send her email about that.

Excellent question indeed. I think I may have wondered briefly but soon forgot ;) I always accept there's no real explanation to many things and just read...

Well, during her Mayan Times Luce was *so* 'holy' she got sacrificed, which was the closest any person could come to their God. Or do I see that not right? It's not really a baptism, but a great religious deal anyway.

About the changing appearances I wondered too. At first Luca and Daniel looked the same, only when their habitats required, did they change shape. I thought that odd too. I wondered if I read *over* the parts that Luce and Daniel *did* look different during their nearest former lives, but it seems I did not. It's only logical that appearances change even though souls don't. So why not *all* the time, all their lives?

Sometimes I think writers forget why they're doing things, or the explanation is so simple to them they neglect to tell us. Or they don't even stop and think. I don't know.

Nurlely wrote: "Anna wrote: "also, since when are the fallen angels burned if they step into a church? i mean, didn't they have to 'swim' in the church/pool at sword and cross?"

Not all fallen angels are prohibit..."

But I don't think Cam had sided yet..

Cam had demon wings didn't he or am I mistaken about that?

Amaris wrote: "But I don't think Cam had sided yet.. "

Yes, Cam has. You need to read Passion to get clear information regarding Cam and Lilith, a cause who speed up Cam's movement to Lucifer.

Pauline wrote: "Cam had demon wings didn't he or am I mistaken about that?"

Yes Pauline. Cam has. The demons have either black or gold wings. While Lucifer has black wings, Cam has golden wings. Daniel and the angels who side Heaven have either silver or white wings.