Creative Reviews discussion

I guess I DID kick off my marketing effort last night on JournalJabber for The Reluctant, so as I finish book two, I am thinking about pricing and would like some feedback.

(Feel free to just talk about pricing strategies here too.)

Ebook:
Book one is priced at $2.99

When I get ready to release book two, what should I do with the prices?

I ask this because I think there is some sort of strategy lurking out there to get people to buy book one and then book two. We have also seen what happened to JAC's readership when her book went up on Amazon for free.

So would it be an idea for an author to drop the price drastically (Amazon won't allow a free book) on the first book?

Since I DO plan to combine the first two books into one larger book (as an eBook), I realize I will cut new readers a break and price it at like $3.99. BUT, I still want to give them an option to get the first book cheap and I MUST also cut a break to fans who have already purchased and/or read book one. People who have read book one shouldn't have to pay $3.99 for the combined volumes.

Then again...if I price book one at $.99 and book two at $2.99, then the price for the combined books ($3.99) isn't a deal at all.

Suggestions?

Splitter

ack pricing! Such a tricky thing see I usually put a low price on e-reader because I have this mental thing about havinga computer file priced high.

There is definitely a feeling that ebooks should be cheaper than p-books. How cheap it should be is something that depends on where you are - UK is a sucker for freebies and cheap prices but US seems to be up for more expensive prices.

I think having the first one as low as possible is a good plan, certainly in UK - and bear in mind that if you want to make it free on Smashwords, Amazon will then price-match it (useful "Tell us about a lower price" button). Not currently sure if it's better that the author tells them or someone else does though.

My current plan is to make the short story free when I have a minute, make book 1 as cheap as possible (.49p in UK and whatever cheapest price I can find in US might be), and do Book 2 and the omnibus each for 1.99 as I want new readers to go for the omnibus rather than the separates.

Having said that, that might be silly though, so I'll be tweaking as I go along.

What I've discovered this month though is that the exposure you get from a freebie or cheaper version is really valuable. However you should DEFINITELY remember to put your book on the 35% royalties before dropping the price (valuable tip from April Hamilton there)!

Difficult though; there's a whole argument about what a book is "worth". I think worth and value are two different things. It's worth as much as the customer is prepared to pay - but its value is in their enjoying it enough to come back and pay a bit more for the second one. For me, the money isn't the point; getting it read is.

I don't think that if someone reads a good book they treasure it more if they paid more for it. I know that
with paperbacks I value the book for enjoyment, regardless of whether I bought it for three quid via Amazon or full price from Waterstones. Whether we deal with ebooks differently may be another question though....
JAC

Here are my thoughts on it. E-books don't require: Printing, binding, storage, transport, shipping, handling or any of the other mundane costs that a p-book requires. Therefore, to price an e-book like a p-book is just ridiculous; I know the author needs to get paid but, indie authors especially, are getting close to 100% of the proceeds from the sales of their e-books (or so I figured - if I'm off base here, let me know!) - it seems the distributor is the only middleman cost, and they really shouldn't charge that much (IMHO) because all they're doing is facilitating the sale, really. Marketing costs are the only real issues on e-books; of course, they're not insignificant, I grant you ...

Since p-books have all that overhead and the middlemen with their palms out for their cuts, the author receives much less of the proceeds from each sale. So, while p-books are still priced pretty high, it seems to me, at least there is some justification for it. Personally, I'd be very averse to spending more than $5 or $6 for an e-book - it's one thing when you have a product in your hand, it's another when it's digital with the inherent differences. I'll see e-books for $9 or even $20 (???? WTF???) and just shake my head - I'll go and buy a used paperback for $4 instead.

So, looking at it from the dirt-poor buyer's POV (as opposed to the dirt-poor author!), I'd price it as low as you comfortably can, within reason. If it's a single book, $2 or $3 seems reasonable, or even up to 5 if it is a significantly long book (I just don't see charging that much for something that is less than 150 pages, but that's just me; if it's, say, 500 or more pages, that's another issue altogether!); if you put out a sequel, drop the price on the first one, but keep the same (higher) price for the 2nd as you had originally charged for the first. If you put out an omnibus, then set the price at about 20% less than it would be for buying them both (or all, depending on how many stories in the omnibus), at the least.

Sorry if that's all worded a bit bluntly - I haven't been sleeping well the past few days and am starting to get fuzzy-brain ... I apologize in advance if I step on toes. Set me straight if need be :-)

I guess part of the problem are the big publishing houses. Most ebooks from authors on their books are around £6 (approx $11).

I've reduced my book to £0.99 and $0.99 for the moment as part of a sale, but I'm looking at the general price to be about £2.99 and $2.99, which I think is a respectable price for an ebook of a standard paperback size (Liberator's Ruin weighs in at about 600 pages).

I think you would be onto something by offering a few options for the reader. I'm not exactly sure how Smashwords works, but since you asked opinions, here is mine (take it for what you will - especially since I am NOT an author! LOL)

Price both books at 2.99 separately and make an Omni available for 3.99.

I think this is a fair deal; your established fans will not be paying any more than they did for the original and there is an incentive to get both books at once for new readers.

For what it's worth, I initially priced Ferris' Bluff at .99 everywhere and kept it there for about a month. I figured that was to do a kind of favor to the folks who knew about it from FB and my blog, etc. I also gave a ton away through Smashwords with their coupon dealie. I've since raised the price everywhere to $2.99 and am still seeing similar sales figures. I think $2.99 is a fair price for an inide book and the market seems to bear it easily.
Good Luck!

Fred

Oooh that's worth the knowing, Fred. Was that your first or do you have any other books out now?

I think you should price your e-books according to length. I have everything under 10000words free (only on Smashwords) but plan on stopping the freebies next year as they haven't brought many sales until now (since the first published title back in January. What's free stays free, BUT from 2012 I'll do o-20000words at .99$, 20-60000words 2.99$ and 60-100000words 4.99$ (Not that I'll ever reach 100000words, LOL).
BUT if you have a series, it makes sense to drop the price of the first book (say, by half of the rest) and then leave the others at a higher price and the omnibus again based on length/price. Mine isn't really a series, so dropping the price of the first book won't probably help to sell the others (mostly because the first is not in the usual setting - same world, different time).
Hope I make sense! :-)

this is a tough one. I think 2.99 is a great price for both books. I also know that for Amanda Hocking (who yes, is a bit of a anomoly) she priced the first book in series .99$ and then the next books in the series for 2.99$. That could work because you draw a reader in with the low price tag and then they want more so they pay th 2.99.
But still, i think 2.99 a piece is good then the deal would be the omni for 3.99....
Let us know what you decide!

I think $0.99 for book one and $2.99 for book two is completely fair.

more coming soon!

I have to thank all of you for your input. I'm a novice at the publishing end of it, largely because I'm a short story writer. It's hard enough to market a novel, so I know I'm in for a fight with my first collection coming soon. It will be priced down...way down. If and when I'm able to build a following, then I'll consider thinking about money!

A. good luck! Also, you should consider writing a short for the Creative Reviews Christmas anthology we are doing!

I noticed that my book for .99 has done much better than the one I had for 2.99. Which is frustrating but what are you going to do. When I dropped my Novella from 2.99 to 1.99, it started to do much better as well. It is hard when you have to compete with some of the big boys who are charging .99.

Ok, here is my rant.
There is an indie author (no name) that charged like 1.99 fort her first book.
I really liked it!
then for the second went up to 9.99!
For a virtual unkown, with only 2 books in a catalog now, that seems stupid high.
Im with Katy and others when it comes to ebooks.
Paying that kind of money or more for an ebook doesn't seem fair when I don't hold it in hand.
Now if it's a pubbed author with everyone having their hands out, I can accept that.
What works for me as a reader and got me hooked and interested in Indie's as a whole was this strategy....
free or .99 or 1.99 for the first book in a series.
1.99 - 2.99 for second book
2.99 - 3.99 for third
More than 5 dollars depends on how much I like the author and the story.
Actually, splitter, YOUR book was the most I spent on an Indie work that I knew nothing about.
I only did it cause I heart your personality and was VERY pleasantly surprised.
So there you have my two cents.
Also to get more followers, do an introductory thing, that seems to work at times for authors....i think someone mentioned that too.

Cambria wrote: "this is a tough one. I think 2.99 is a great price for both books. I also know that for Amanda Hocking (who yes, is a bit of a anomoly) she priced the first book in series .99$ and then the next bo..."

Don't even get me started on her!

So, have you made any decisions on it yet, Splitter? LOL

I agree. It's bad enough the amount publishers set for ebook versions (£11.99 for the latest George R. R. Martin novel - the hardback is only £6 more!!) without us indie authors charging a lot too.

I think an ebook should really be no more than £4 here in the UK, but better at around £2.99. That way, the author get's 70% of the royalties, and it's not too expensive for the reader to purchase.

Amy wrote: "So, have you made any decisions on it yet, Splitter? LOL"

Decisions? No lol.

But here is what I am thinking....

I'll give away the first book if I can figure out a way to do it. More likely, given Amazon's policy against free books, I will do it for $.99.

Second book at $2.99. For 80K words, I think that's fair and I really do think the second book is even better with a more intricate plot.

Combined for....$3.25. I might even go back and offer the combined for $2.99 because I have contact information for maybe 50% of the people who bought the first book via emails they have sent. I can offer them a coupon discount through Smashwords.

Of course, reviewers and beta readers are getting the second book at no charge. If someone is going to do a review on a blog and on Amazon/smashwords/JournalStone/iBooks/B&N, they earn the book with the review (good or bad). That's just my opinion, of course.

If ANYONE knows how to get a book on Amazon at no-charge these days, let me know. Despite the other outlets available, most sales still come through Amazon. Ideally, I would like to offer the first book at no charge and the combined at $2.99.

OR....

I'll just go $.99 on each book.

Here's the decision an author in this situation has to make: You have no name recognition so that is your number one goal.

Making $.30 off of a work that you spent months (or years) putting together is not fair. Really. However, making $2.10 from off of the same work that no one reads is silly on many more levels.

For those who don't know, on eBooks, the general line in the sand for the site that sells it is $2.99. Anything under that grosses a 30% share to the author, anything at $2.99 or higher grosses a 70% share to author.

So it's a matter of priority where name recognition figures into the equation.

Or....

Michael J. Sullivan, one of those indies who made it that we should all take note of, priced his eBooks books at (I think) $4.95 and up. He sold a lot of books too and now has a nice contract with Orbit.

There IS a theory in sales that "free" is worthless and a higher price implies better quality.

So I am still mulling things over lol. I'm not going the %4.95 plus rout. While I think that's a nice discount off of a paper book because it is an eBook, I think eBooks should be cheap because there is very little cost-to-produce involved for each copy.

An agent would be nice lol.

Splitter

Hey, double post....

Another idea I am toying with is finding another author and figuring out a way to combine books/series for a pricing discount to the consumer. I've seen it done before (buy this book from that author, get this one free from that other author).

That is more easily done through a publisher, however. Of course, it takes virtually nothing to set up a publishing company so....I dunno.

What I see, in a basic sense, is a potential to partner with others. My own personal feeling, and I have nothing to back this up, is that such things will be a "next wave" for indie authors. It's out of the box thinking, but so are a lot of the things going on right now.

Splitter

Splitter;
it is perhaps worth noting that with 70% royalties you get 70% of the price it sells for but with 35% you get 35% of the list price....

Considering Amazon's pricematching tendencies (And Kobo's price-cutting tendencies) this is sometimes worth the knowing.

Also: Apple and Kobo tend to discount and if told, Amazon tend to pricematch. Sites to watch if you go via Smashwords...where of course you can make your book free...
JAC

Splitter, the only way to have your book free on Amazon is have it free everywhere else (Smashwords, Barnes&Nobles, etc). My novella http://www.amazon.com/Jessamine-ebook... is now free on Amazon because it's free elsewhere and they eventually realized it... took them all summer, but there you go! ;-)

Ahhhhhhh....

Sneaky.

Splitter like. Splitter must think more on this. Splitter's plan need revising.

Splitter

C.S. Splitter wrote: "Ahhhhhhh....

Sneaky.

Splitter like. Splitter must think more on this. Splitter's plan need revising.

Splitter"

Splitter let us know and we'll flood Amazon saying "this book is cheaper somewhere else" - it might be faster! ;-) Teaches them to add some buttons to their products, tee-hee!!

Splitter you make some good points. I can add my two cents in here but I think many of you will probably disagree. So you can say that but please be nice about it.

I think there is something to your comment Splitter about how there IS a certain theory that if something is free it isn't as good as a higher priced product.
I can understand that. When i get something free I sometimes wonder why its free. Don't any of you? I mean, i have read a lot of self published books and I have liked just about every one of them. You all know this. But, when i see a free price tag I wonder if the sales aren't going well and they priced as free to get people to read it.
My other thought on very low pricing. It isn't fair to the author! I know first hand how hard authors work. Don't they deserve some profit for their hard work?
Look, I'm not saying that pricing a book at 99 cents is bad because I think the strategy works well, but I think that 2.99 is perfectly reasonable, even in this economy.
Frankly, I have paid 9.99 for many a ebook. Yes, I know gasp. But when you compare that same book at the store in print, it sells for like 17.99 (this is a new release, peeps) then paying 9.99 is a deal. at least to me. And if its a book i really want then i am going to read it.
Most of those ebooks that are 9.99 are your bigger publishers name, so that's why they are priced that way but I still paid it.
In my case, with my publisher, we haven't talked pricing yet but I am going to assume my book will be priced similarily to the other Ebooks they sell and that means my book will be about 5.99 for the Ebook.
I know you all are prolly gasping. But i think thats reasonable. I'd pay it. (and not because its my book, I've already fessed to paying 9.99 for ebooks)

Well in all fairness, it is usually free to get people to read it, but there can be a few reasons for that and you can never tell which is the right one. Don't forget, if you like the look of it, you have the sample to tell you what the book is like. For myself, if there's no reviews I might be dubious, but if there are a few at least, then I'll read up on what others think and make a judgement based on that.

Second, in a trad-pubbed environment, it isn't fair to the author but for indie lit, if the author is the one in charge of the pricing, that's a different matter. In all fairness, when they made mine free I probably won't get paid for those copies; but then, prior to it going free I had sold around 50 copies and now there are over 4000 copies residing on people's Kindles; that kind of publicity I could never have afforded, and even if it's not any time soon, the chances of people looking at the book when it's on their own kindle in a list of 300 others is much larger than them coming across it in the Kindle store in a list of 400,000 others. Add to that that my sales have been great ever since - slowing down now, but bearing in mind that pre-free I'd sold 50-odd copies in 5 months, post-free, in September so far I have sold approximately 500 copies. NO complaints from this end!

So I think the advantage of it lies in the circumstances. For me, a week's Freebie-dom has been an unmitigated boon and gives me hope that future books in the series will have a head start. For others who have pretty good solid sales anyway, and aren't writing a series, it could be really bad news.

Thing is, there's no point calculating your profit on a per-book basis for ebooks as whether you sell one or a hundred it doesn't cost you any more. If I sell one at 9.99 and get £7 royalties for it, fab - but when I'm writing subsequent books that's only one reader to buy the rest. It might take 10 sales at .99 to make up the £7 royalties, but if my subsequent books are priced at 2.99, 3.99. 5.99 etc and I make 10 sales of each, the difference mounts up pretty quickly.

Of course everyone has their own ideas of the right way to do it, and what an ebook ought to cost. I certainly don't think that all ebooks should cost .99 as at the very least 2.99 seems a reasonable price. The most I have paid for one so far was £6 English because I really wanted it; but that was a one-off. Anything up to £5 or £6 I'll probably buy; more than that and I'd need to want it really badly... but then we might be agreeing there as I'm in sterling and you're in dollars!

But then let's not mix up "worth" and "value". It's like selling your house. The estate agent tells you it's worth £200k. No-one buys it at that price but someone puts in an offer at £175k. Do you take it?
That depends on how long it's been on the market, what else in on the market at that price, how desperate you are to get out of there and get on with it, whether taking the offer means that you can't get the house you want to buy, and whether you think that if you just wait it out, you'll get a better offer. If you can afford to buy the house of your dreams for 175k but only if you agree it in the next month, the fact that the value of your house is 200k becomes irrelevant. The value of the offer is less than the value of the house, but the worth of the offer is that it means you can move on and get the dream house you want. In that case, I'm taking the offer, myself!

Books are like that; what you pay is not what you remember. How much you enjoyed them is the thing that stays with you.

But then, worth/value judgements are so subjective. I'd guess that every person on here will have a different take on it and all of them are equally valid.

Add into the mix the fact that cheap sells better in the UK, and seems to make much less difference in the US from what I can see, and what it boils down to is guesswork, experimentation and a certain amount of blind luck!
JAC

I think you are on to something JA which I think none of us want to hear, but it is the truth.

No matter how much we market, scheme, plan, work, and sacrifice, MOST of what things come down to is LUCK.

Did one person happen to get it that knew just the right people who knew just the right people?

Did you happen to release it the day a bit shot someone was scrolling through the new releases and your amazing cover or clever title caught his or her attention?

You never know what it could be, and I think if you ask any 2 authors out there, none of them will tell you the exact same story. I think there are many things that could work well, and many things that will sink your book. So will we ever find the ONE method that will guarantee you a spot on the best sellers list? I hope so!! Will it happen?? Prolly not.

While saying all that, I think you all have very valid points...it just depends on how you look at it, and what direction you wish to go!

All we have to do now is to work out how to MAKE our luck - anyone got the recipe, I'm listening!!
heheheh

But having said that, I think the first step is finding a group like this where people share information and ideas, and help and support each other. With the people and resources here, I think we can all get a lot further than we otherwise might have.

...hmmm, thought...


JAC

I hate to say it, but it seems to boil down to luck from what I keep reading about.
John Locke seemed to make his biz by just spamming the heck out of people.
He''ll even tell you he's not that great of a writer...

Oh, did he spam people? To an annoying extent, or allowable levels?
Didn't know that...
JAC

Yes, i agree. Luck is where its at. Anyone know where i can go buy some??? LOL

J.A. wrote: "Oh, did he spam people? To an annoying extent, or allowable levels?
Didn't know that...
JAC"

Yep! That's what it really boiled down to.

I think luck increases with a higher number of titles available. I mean Amanda Hocking had 7 titles out when she made it big... so, writers, just go back to writing right now! ;-)
I'll have my 4th novel out next month, and the 5th in December, plus I hope to add a couple of short stories or collections... my name is bound to come out in searches at some point! :-D

i think thats a great point Barbara! I agree, the more the author is out there, the better! on all fronts. :)

In my opinion why she made it big is because she geared it toward YA which has been all the rage since *cough* twilight.
Both young and old are into this genre now.
Mortal instruments, house of night, blood lines, vamp academy etc.
Now lj smith's series's are on the cw!
Of course having a back log is key too.
Just seems ya is all the rage!

Jenn wrote: "In my opinion why she made it big is because she geared it toward YA which has been all the rage since *cough* twilight.
Both young and old are into this genre now.
Mortal instruments, house of nig..."

so I won't make it big just because I write ADULT fantasy? *whines*
I'm sure there are some adults out there that are sick of hearing of teenagers and vampires! I've never liked vampires in the first place, but I like Joleene Naylor's Amarantyne series because it's not YA! :-D
Old Spinster Sick of YA Books

Barbara wrote: "Jenn wrote: "In my opinion why she made it big is because she geared it toward YA which has been all the rage since *cough* twilight.
Both young and old are into this genre now.
Mortal instruments,..."

Lol no. I wanna retch when I see or hear another one is coming out!
I used to love vamp stories but now they drive me insane!
I'm over it, waiting for the rest of the world to catch up

I'm kind of tired of the vampire & teenager stories too. But I'm editing a book for Anita J. and it is a different twist on the vamps. VERY good!

Sara wrote: "I'm kind of tired of the vampire & teenager stories too. But I'm editing a book for Anita J. and it is a different twist on the vamps. VERY good!"

Well cambria writes YA like nobody's bizness! Shes my exception and not just because shes my bff.

Awww, thanks Jenn.
I can see why some people might get tired of YA. I never really do. LOL. There have been some books i think, Seriously? after I read it. But you know, I think it comes down to the author and the style of writing. If you can make something thats been done a hundred times feel fresh then to me thats a good author.
But hey, not everyone will like everything.
I like adult fantasy too!

I love YA - the cool thing about the newer YA is that it is being written more for all ages now instead of focusing on the younger crowd. It is being written for everyone.

I love YA too, but am trending toward YA other than vamps, though I still have quite a few of those on my TBR. I read adult as well...it really depends what's blowing my skirt at the moment. I agree, Cambria's synopsis is very riveting!

Dale, Thank you!!!! I hope you enjoy my book, if you get the chance to read it!

I'm still open to reading a Vamp book. But it takes more to get me excited abotu them. ;)

Cambria wrote: "I'm still open to reading a Vamp book. But it takes more to get me excited abotu them. ;)"

Me too

;)

Cam...ditto on both points!

I just edited a vamp book that was freaking amazing...I will have to make sure I put up a post about it when she finally gets it out. But it is called A Hidden Fire by Elizabeth Hunter. I know she has it up here and gave out a few ARCs already. But it was brilliant!!

Hmmmm....I bet you convince a few people! But talk about pricing, I paid $8 for an eBook that was one of the worst books I read this year. I will never pay that much for an Ebook again. But it had such good buzz that I did, and now I'm angry that I forked the beans.