The Zombie Group! discussion

Something I've noticed here and elsewhere, is that folks often don't like the idea of intelligent zombies. I have to admit, I'm the same... give me a book or a movie where the living dead are driving cars and chatting to each other, and I probably won't enjoy it.

But what does fascinate me - both as a writer and a reader - is trying to imagine how much the dead remember.

In Romero's Day of the Dead, we had the introduction of the unforgettable Bub who, with 'help' from Dr Logan, began to remember aspects of the person he used to be. In Land of the Dead, he took the concept a lot further with the zombies returning to where they used to live and their old routines.

In Jonathan's new book, Dead of Night: A Zombie Novel, he puts a fascinating new spin on the relationship between the zombie and the person they were before death. In my Autumn books, the dead begin as dumb creatures, barely able to control themselves, but over the course of the series they regain some semblance of intellect (but they don't drive cars or chat to each other...!).

I think the idea that zombies are able to think and remember, but are physically unable to express their fears/thoughts/desires etc. is both fascinating and terrifying. Imagine that - being conscious and remembering who you were, and yet being unable to do anything about it. With no way of communicating, you're trapped in your own body, feeling yourself slowly decay...

David, this is a fantastic aspect to consider. If you've read The Passage, what really was disturbing was to experience the tortuous transformation of human into... something else, and to hear it from their perspective. You also hear throughout the book, what thoughts and sensations they experience after the change, expressed via whatever humanity remains. To me, that is the true definition of horror.

If you've ever been close to someone who is dying, you have probably experienced a degree of that horror - the knowledge that the other person is aware of what is about to happen. I find that almost unfathomable.

I have been contemplating this. By no means am I a literary genius, but I have done a lot of work with film theory. What comes to mind is "the gaze", wherein when we watch something, we unconsciously identify with what we see on screen (as constructed and directed by the film itself.)The ultimate goal in this line of thinking is to obtain a catharsis. For myself, when watching a zombie film (or reading a book) I am always rooting for the survivors, and according to film theory, ultimately go through the "catharsis" at the happy(?) ending.

I suppose I would argue that the reason many people are not a fan of "intelligent" zombies is perhaps because they don't adhere to the modern zombie archetype, possibly confusing our unconscious with whom to direct the "gaze" towards.

Furthering my line of thinking would be the zombie archetype in regards to semiotic analysis: we automatically associate this archetype with certain images and behaviours. When this contradiction happens, we become uncomfortable, or dislike that these images are not portraying what we expect.

haha, do I even make sense?!!

My take on it, and this is based I guess on the zombies I constructed in my novel, is that full-fledged zombies remember nothing as you and I conceptualize memory. They don't have the apparatus for memory except at the most rudimentary level. Humans: Did I take out the trash this morning? Zombies: Urrggh (translate - I'm hungry). Humans: Did I remember to zip up my fly? Zombies: Urghahhh (I'm hungry). I think this is in fact central to the zombie theme. In order for the horror to be complete (not be mention neurobiologically consistent) they can't recall a darn thing. They can't even recall that they haven't eaten, because the region of the brain responsible for knowing they've eaten enough is infected and dysfunctional. No matter how much they eat, they can't think they've eaten enough. Think neurologically impaired crocodile...that's my zombie.

Having said that, and again sticking to a medical paradigm, folks get sick and pass through a number of a stage. This is what makes the zombie stories tragic as well as horrifying. As the infected get sicker, they experience memories that they know they'll forget.

@Alexis: you make perfect sense to me! And I think one of the things that makes so many zombie stories so much more frightening and intense is a lot of the time we are denied that moment of catharsis where the survivors win. Just think of some of the biggest success in Zombie film history: Dawn of the Dead ends with the last of the main characters being killed because he was mistaken for a zombie. Return of the Living dead ends with the zombie out break basically being made ten times worse.

If anything I'd say the thing that separates the majority of most zombie lit from most zombie movies is in Zombie lit the survivors make it and the zombies don't win out.

Alexis - Your argument makes sense. Except I'm never on the survivors' side. What does that say about me?! :0

Ruby - if you're never on the survivors' side, maybe you should try my Hater books. They're not strictly zombie novels (although people often class them as such). They'll seriously mess with your allegiances!

Ruby wrote: "Alexis - Your argument makes sense. Except I'm never on the survivors' side. What does that say about me?! :0"

I think it means you are a very interesting individual!! lol! I'd be interested to hear an elaboration on your allegiance.

Hmm...I think I'm somewhere in the middle when it comes to zombie intelligence. There's something utterly terrifying about a mindless, brainless horde that's just driven to feed -- it's an enemy stripped of all humanity, and I think that's hard for most survivors (the ones you see in books and movies, anyway) to really comprehend. Makes for great drama.

I like the idea of a few zombies retaining some personality/memories -- much like Bub from "Day." Or they start out retaining a lot more (and maybe being able to run, jump, etc.) but then slide further into classic, brain-dead, flesh-grabbin' zombiedom.

There was a movie a few years back that dealt with the slide into it, I think... "I, Zombie" or something like that? It's been on my to-watch list for awhile.