Victorians! discussion

To compare and contrast the last part of these novels.

Interesting that at this point in both books a wedding has taken place. One seems full of hope and joy while the other seems full of woe and gloom. Both couples seem to love one another and both keep their wedding a secret but for different reasons. Do you think they both will be successful marriages? Was one a marriage of convenience?

I wonder if they had let others know if the weddings might not have taken place. In the case of Richard and Ada no one who cared for them was there. So sad that they entered married life with strangers as witnesses. At least for John and Bella, her father was present.

I think BH is at bottom a tragedy, while OMF is essentially a comedy. What do you think? Certainly, there is a blend of humor and sadness in both books.

I would say both marriages were love matches, though with very different prospects. Richard is pretty far gone but I think he does love Ada.

So you don't think Richard married Ada so that he could legally take hold of her small inheritance? He is like an addict to me at this point and I sure hope that he is not just using her or rather her money. I think he did love her at one time but he loves the allure and the promise of the lawsuit more. As with all addictions I hope this one does not destroy him.

Funny, Bea, I have found myself laughing at the absurdities of both the books and frankly I am enjoying BH more. I can see the tragic element in both, but of course OMF has less I believe.

I still think of the sadness of not having family present for something that should be a wonderful time in one' life. Such a shame that the couples felt that certain family would not approve and therefore eliminated them. It would devastate me if one of my children married without my presence. I was pretty shocked that Ada and Richard did not even include Esther.

I think he sincerely believes he is acting in Ada's interest, despite her pleas to the contrary.

I wish Dickens had explained why Esther was not invited (though she couldn't have approved). But even more puzzling is why, having married, Ada did not immediately move in with him.

I see you may not be done or I would say more.

I won't make too much comment here because I did not do a reread of Bleak House for our discussion. I think with Our Mutual Friend, I found just as much tragic as BH. There are comic moments and characters within each, but there is so much heavy stuff in OMF to me. John, abused all his life, feeling so detached from life that he declares himself dead. Wegg trying to take such easy advantage of Boffin as to blackmail his fortune away from him. The insane Headstone almost beats Eugene to death over a romance that does not even exist. I think despite the happy outcome of some of Dickens' story lines, I still take with me the message that we live in a very tragic world, with individuals carrying such weight around inside and often up against such odds in the world.

I guess this is why I disagree with the critics that focus in on the sentimentality of Dickens. I think that some of the characters have experienced pain for so many years that even a happy ending doesn't erase all that -- in real life I can say the same.

So very true, Sarah. Such a mimic of real life for sure.