The Sword and Laser discussion

So, somehow, the rule 34 meme actually passed me by. I even managed to miss the XKCD about it.

I started reading this the other day. I'm finding the 2nd person narrative a bit odd to get used to. I'm also sometimes thrown off by the dialogue. I have to read it out loud to get that Stross is writing the accent, to fully "ken" what is being said.

Anybody else reading it yet? I'm contemplating getting it from Audible, to help me with the dialogue. I mean, if I'm going to end up reading it out loud to myself, why not?

I'm about 1/4 done with Rule 34. I'm used to the narrative style since I've read Halting State a couple of times. I'm also reading it on a Kindle and the dictionary knows a surprising amount of the words I am unfamiliar with.

I have to say that the 2nd person narrative isn't as bad as I thought it would be. For some reason I'm not even a big fan of 1st person narrative (though it doesn't bother me so much that I don't read good novels that happen to be 1st person), but after the first POV I feel like I'm very much used to it.

I will say that I do occasionally find the accents a bit hard to read, and occasionally annoying. But so far it isn't bothering me nearly enough to keep me from reading (only about 20% done currently).

That being said I do enjoy the story so far. The near future setting is at once familiar enough that I don't feel like a fish out of water, but different enough to be intriguing. And I must say that I enjoy having to look up words, expanding my vocabulary and all that.

terpkristin wrote: "Anybody else reading it yet? I'm contemplating getting it from Audible, to help me with the dialogue. I mean, if I'm going to end up reading it out loud to myself, why not?"

terpkristin: I'm listening to it after finishing Halting State, highly recommend the Audiobook! see my post on this topic.
Try this in Audiobook! the humor is funnier in a Scottish accent

I'm about a third of the way through and seems to be getting easier to read the farther I get into it. For the last 50 or so pages, I haven't even noticed the dialect or the perspective.

The 2nd person perspective isn't something that I overly enjoy, but I can live with it and it isn't that hard to get used to.

Having a bit more problems with the accents, but that might also be one of the few downsides for non-native speakers of English.

What I genuinely enjoy is the fact that the book takes place in Edinburgh where we just spent 12 days over Christmas and New Year (Hogmanay!), so I'm very happy to recognize all the street names and stuff and go "OH I KNOW WHERE THAT IS" on my head all the time.

At first the second-person narrative struck me as gimmicky and pointless (like being in an interactive fiction game or choose-your-own-adventure without being able to make any choices), but as earlier as the first character pov switch for chapter 2 I found myself getting used to it.

The accents are still throwing me off, however. I am kind of wishing I had got the audio book now, but I already paid for the kindle version, so I'm committed to e-inking it.

2nd person is somewhat tough, only 5% in,so I will give it more of chance

You go and buy Rule 34, and you find the 2nd person narrative irritating.

But you decide to slog on and hope that you get used to this perspective.
You are only 6% in. You are an optimist.

You don't mind the accents as they make sense when you imagine them spoken.

That's enough from you. ;-)

You tell Dave, "Don't mess with me heid, ya ken?"

Dave just laughs and shakes his heid "you tosser! your Scottish accent is faker than Anwar's Consulship"

Don't think my comment is a spoiler but just in case, I tagged it.
%17 in, Chapter ANWAR: Office Worker

the scene (view spoiler)[ when Anwar reveals his new job to his wife in the kitchen (hide spoiler)] is priceless! I couldn't stop laughing.

Strange book.

I'm 16% in and I've gotten used to the 2nd person, but I hate the vernacular. I'm interested, so I'll keep going.

I'm starting with Halting State, before I go on to Rule 34.
I find the second person present tense totally natural, perhaps because that's how I talk to myself in my head.

And the scottish dialect is fine. You lot should try some Irvine Welsh

It took me about 15% to get used to the narrative style, but now that I am used to it I am finding it quite enjoyable. It is refreshing to read a book from an odd perspective. It gives the characters a different feel.

The description of rocket science as described at the beginning of Toymaker: Headhunter was moderately depressing given my career...

I'm about 1/5th in and still find myself getting thrown off by the second person and the written accent. That said, it's moving fairly quickly so I'll probably stick through and read it all. Funny that our 2 most recent "sci-fi" picks have been much more like futuristic thriller's than more classic-type sci-fi.

Ok I just read the first part of the aforementioned chapter and WOW I was a bit thrown by the "I" use and the vulgarity. The use of "I" actually almost took me out of the narrative I was starting to grok.

I like it better then I thought I would.
So far so good

This is absolutely not the sort of thing I would normally pick-up, but I'm enjoying it all the same. The perspective doesn't bother me, but the dialog and foreign slang is melting my brain a bit.

Anwar is my favorite narrator, so far. Hard not to sympathize with someone hustling to get work right now and having to put up with a ton of bullshit to get there. And then the job is bullshit! Brilliant.

I don't really have a problem with the 2nd person narration, but I don't really understand the point. I'm only about halfway through, so maybe it becomes clear later on, but is there some intentional plot-related use for it?
(Since it sometimes switches back into first person, I feel like it has to be meaningful in some way, right? Right?)

The 2nd person narrative is distracting and the story is very difficult to follow. I got used to the context announcement in 1Q84. The accent isn't helping me distinguish the characters as is usually the case with audiobooks. I'm about 1/2 way through and thinking that I need to just start over again.

First of all, I am an idiot for not seeing this coming a mile away since the name of the book is "Rule 34" but I am finding it too graphic for me. I avoid books that get in my face with language, violence, and sexual content - this book mixes all three in the first few pages. I don't think I'm going to be able to keep going.

terpkristin wrote: "So, somehow, the rule 34 meme actually passed me by. I even managed to miss the XKCD about it.

I started reading this the other day. I'm finding the 2nd person narrative a bit odd to get used to..."

I agree. It's taking me way to long. I find myself reading the same sentence several times, out loud, to get a better understanding. The dialogue got me all twisted. Me no like being twisted.

I got about 50% in before I donated it to Goodwill. At first I was determined to push through but after awhile I realized that reading a book should be about enjoyment and not accomplishment. I think I will pick up a Tad Willams or Branding Sanderson book while the rest of the group pushes through. Has anyone started bleeding from the eyes yet?

I can't read it. The second person thing is really annoying to me. Drove me crazy after about three pages... sorry. That's a no-no for me and I suppose another book in the book club I can't participate in. :(

I feel like Ryan: Why punish yourself reading a book like that?

I read the first couple of chapters and really liked the beginning. Yes, the second person writing style takes some getting used to, but it also draws you into the story. What I like most so far is the not so distant future that is being painted - the totally connected policy system with augmented reality, the political situation (Scotland splitting from the UK) and I am intrigued where the whole consul thing is taking the story. I'll definitely be reading this one after I missed out on Elantris.

Started it on audible last night. I really like it and am terribly intrigued.
Stross has odd and hilarious turns of phrase, I think Anwar might be my favourite character, but Liz is a lot more sympathetic than she was in Halting State.
I'm still not sure why some people have a problem with the second person. It's totally natural to me.

The second person perspective was easy to adapt to in my opinion but what I had trouble with was the way they use tech in the book. The idea that our heroine goes to a homicide on a segway threw me out of the moment I just couldn't take this girl seriously anymore. Some of the ways they interact with tech is a little wonky and we don't get an explanation for how this internet database for police officers works. I think some of my trepidation with the tech comes from the cover of the book. I bought the MMPB which has a picture of woman with bionic implants on the cover and this i am sure has damaged my view of the story.

My memory is hazy, but I think there were clearer explanations of how copspace worked in Halting State.

I thought Liz on the Segway was hilarious. She's kind of bad ass, but she's also kind of pathetic. It worked for me.

I guess I should have prefaced my trouble with the book by saying that I never read Halting State. I knew going into Rule 34 that I might have trouble catching up to certain plot devices.

Still can't get past that Scotland Yard's carbon budget made this Detective Inspector have to take a Segway to a crime scene. I would have just walked.

I was having trouble with it at first and I still can't. Say I really like the book but it is ok. I will finish it I think.

I am 2/3 of the way through the dead-tree version, and am really quite enjoying it. It will be utterly spoiled if there is not a suitable resolution to the various threads that are trailing through the book, so fingers crossed on that one...

I can quite imagine that the writing style would upset someone who was not ready for it, or not prepared to invest time into it, but if you think the Scottish accent is hard to read, try Feersum Endjinn!

I broke my collarbone on January 6th, Got operated on the 12. How hard it is to read with one hand! (even with the Kindle). Any itch, every need, means putting the Kindle down. I am also having a hard time finding a comfortable position to read.

Excuse the short unrelated intro, but the day I returned from the hospital I started reading Rule 34 got about 10% of it, but was suffering! The book wasn't distracting me from the pain and discomfort I was feeling. I switch to read Distrust That Particular Flavor and when along much better. I am almost finished with that one and, though much improved, a little worried of returning to our book. I need distraction and something to pass the hours I should be sleeping and I am not.

Half way through and I like this story though I do like Stross a lot. This has his unique snarky voice that he does which I think he uses to address serious issues in a light hearted way.

Alfredo wrote: "I broke my collarbone on January 6th, Got operated on the 12. How hard it is to read with one hand! (even with the Kindle). Any itch, every need, means putting the Kindle down. I am also having a hard time finding a comfortable position to read. "

Well that's no fun! I've had a lot of surgeries, including one on each shoulder and 3 on my hand, so I totally sympathize with how hard it is to use only one hand. This is part of the reason I love audiobooks. :D I listen to them while at the hospital in the waiting area/pre-op area (much more relaxing than thinking about the upcoming surgery) and then when I get home to take my mind off the pain.

Also, assuming your arm is in a sling, I advocate sitting either in a recliner or on a couch/bed leaning against the armrest/wall with your legs up and your Kindle on your lap.

terpkristin wrote: "This is part of the reason I love audiobooks. :D I listen to them while at the hospital in the waiting area/pre-op area (much more relaxing than thinking about the upcoming surgery) and then when I get home to take my mind off the pain...."

Thanks! I have a personal issue with audiobooks. I loved podcasts and I have listen to a lot through this period, but I have never been able to concentrate on an audio book. I really want to support audible for all they do for this, and other podcasts, but really, it seems it is not for me. I have tried over and over again. The only way I have been able to do it is to read a book and then hear it! I believe is that I have a mostly visual attention superavit disorder.

Luckily I am doing much better and I expect to be comfortable reading in a few days.

I'm 8% in, and I'm starting to get used to the narrative style. No problems there.

But I find that for the first time in years I actually have to sit with my Oxford English Dictionary next to me while reading, because once every few pages I find a word I actually have to look up. That doesn't usually happen. My English is pretty darn good, considering it's my third language.

Steve wrote: "...but if you think the Scottish accent is hard to read, try Feersum Endjinn! ..."

I really liked Feersum Endjinn :) I think Banks was trying to make a point of someones brain that worked different from the norm with the odd phonetic viewpoint chapters. But yes, it is pretty challenging to read.

I've been listening and enjoying it for the most part. The accent actually makes it easier for me to keep track of it while I'm doing other things. I haven't found the book too graphic yet, but I knew the meme going in.

For some reason, this passage from Stephen King's The Stand came to mind:

"Harold Edited the Ogunquit High School literary magazine and wrote strange short stories taht were told in the present tense or with the point of view in the second person, or both. You come down the delierious corridor and shoulder your way through the splintered door and look at the racetrack stars--that was Harold's style."

Feersum Endjinn! One of my favorites...."Bascule thi rascule thas me & moar than redy; am feerce. A litl bird tole me."

Find a better sentence....or two...

I think I have officially hit the Rule 34 wall at approximately 37%. I'm not giving up, but it's really starting to drag.

Its not what I would usually define as sci-fi but it seems pretty entertaining and fast-paced - I am trying to figure out what it reminds me of - sort of a cross between Irvine Welsh (Trainspotting) and Richard Morgan (Altered Carbon etc). I'm at about 80% now and still enjoying it, keep going if you can because it all sort of starts to make sense......

I just started this book a few days ago so I'm only a few chapters in. The "yous" everywhere threw me off but depending on what happens in this book I can see where it might pull me in closer using that POV.

....Back to reading.

Brian wrote: "Feersum Endjinn! One of my favorites...."Bascule thi rascule thas me & moar than redy; am feerce. A litl bird tole me."

Find a better sentence....or two..."

I just thought of something.. Feersum Endjinn! would be an absolutely terrible audio book. It would loose the entire meaning of that characters POV.

My problem is that the book comes across as watered down Kate Atkinson. I am enjoying the book, but prefer the likes of "Glasshouse."