The Sword and Laser discussion

Remember the thing I teased in the last episode? I can talk about it now!

https://plus.google.com/u/0/100518419...

Hope you'll all join us next Monday for some clit lit!

Yeah..... I'm glad I didn't click the link to this thread while at work. G+ isn't cooperating on my phone but I'm tentatively in! :)

Oh man. That's like 5am my time. Sigh. sometimes I hate living in a different time zone. Although I guess I could use it as an incentive to get up early.

Anne wrote: "Oh man. That's like 5am my time. Sigh. sometimes I hate living in a different time zone. Although I guess I could use it as an incentive to get up early."

It will also be on YouTube after the recording!

*checks name of thread*

o_O

*leaves quietly*

Veronica wrote: "It will also be on YouTube after the recording!"

But where would be the fun in that?

I love that on the G+ thread everyone is freaking out about Veronica using the word vagina in her title (good thing she didn't add the "clit lit" there!). Such sensitive souls. :0)

Hmm, Veronica has a filthy mouth. I'm shocked, shocked I tell you.

Ha! Clit Lit. Too funny. I'm in. I haven't read that book yet.

I was going to post something witty and funny here.

But, you can't get much better than Vaginal Fantasy and Clit Lit

arrived at this link while surfing for porn? This isn't the vaginal fantasy you're looking for....move along...move along.

Ooh, looks like fun! I'll have to check it out. (Doesn't hurt that I've already read the book and really liked it!)

...And I apparently never grew up, since I can't help but giggle every time I hear the term vaginal fantasy.

Oh yeah, Google + exists...

The vaginal fantasy term comes from Felicia Day's goodreads bookshelves http://goodreads.com/feliciaday .

Is Lost Girl vaginal television?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dpavXw...

hrm.

I've read three books on Felicia's Vaginal-Fantasy shelf.

Not what I expected to be on there, actually. Well, one was, the other two not so much.

I don't mind some vaginal fantasy, unless they start talking about periods (Fire).

Tamahome wrote: "Is Lost Girl vaginal television?"

If it wasn't for the sidekick character I'd probably still be watching that series, seriously one of the most annoying characters I've ever seen.

It was like Galactic Suburbia, but without the accents.

Damn, I missed it. Somehow this isn't my week. Have to watch the video on YouTube, I guess.

It was a very fun and interesting discussion (for all sexes). I liked how it ranged over a wide number of books, tv series etc., not just the one book they officially read. Plus, they outraged part of the audience with Skyrim spoilers. ;)

Kid wrote: "NOT COOLNESS
-Conversations were way to scattered and ADD style (need a moderator) My brain was about to explode from trying to keep track of all the cross-talk."

Actually, I really liked that aspect of it - that it flowed in many different directions like an actual group conversation does. I think that aspect of it is fine, as long as there is *also* a dedicated chunk of time spent on the main book. You're right that the main book should be covered more, but all the related-theme discussions are fun, too.

I do agree that Bonnie especially needs better lighting with her webcam setup. Kiala's problem with the mic was noticed & mentioned during the show, so they know that needs to be addressed.

The world trending of #vaginalfantasy to the Twittersphere's partial befuddlement was indeed awesome. A great start despite various technical glitches.

I loved the moment off mass squeeing about Cumberbitches.

And from what I can tell, Steampunk is the subgenre where all of sff's lesbian heroines are to be found.

RT @veronica RT @feliciaday: Archived Vaginal Fantasy Hangout is now posted! http://t.co/qTd25gAb (@kiala, @veronica, @bonniegrrl thanks!)

Glad you guys enjoyed our little experiment!

Was very good and enjoyed the trending post almost as much as the show !

You know those people who can taste words? I'd like to know how they find the word "quim."

Just as a side note with regard to the vaginality of the proceedings, I think it funny or ironic that most often when people and even educated women are discussing or using the word "vagina", what they are usually talking about are the labia or the vulva in general.

Perhaps women should get more familiar with their lady parts rather than attempting to reappropriate a somewhat vulgarized term in a slightly misguided attempt to assert female sexuality more publicly.

That said, it was a very enjoyable hangout and I hope to hear some actual discussion of the book next time.

channellepton.com

Lepton wrote: "Just as a side note with regard to the vaginality of the proceedings, I think it funny or ironic that most often when people and even educated women are discussing or using the word "vagina", what they are usually taking about are the labia or the vulva in general.

Perhaps women should get more familiar with their lady parts rather than attempting to reappropriate a somewhat vulgarized term in a slightly misguided attempt to assert female sexuality more publicly."

For sexism's sake, I'll bite. Since when is vagina a 'vulgarized term' and why would it need appropriation by women? I also fail to see how talking about female sexuality can in any way be misguided, unless you're talking about how much you hate it.

TL;DR. Misogynist much?

Boots wrote: "Lepton wrote: "Just as a side note with regard to the vaginality of the proceedings, I think it funny or ironic that most often when people and even educated women are discussing or using the word ..."

I think he was speaking of "quim" as a vulgar term but I could be wrong. His point I think was they shouldn't shy away from saying "vagina". I could be wrong. Only lepton can speak for himself.

Nick wrote: "I think he was speaking of "quim" as a vulgar term but I could be wrong. His point I think was they shouldn't shy away from saying "vagina". I could be wrong. Only lepton can speak for himself."

Wow, I totally interpreted that differently. I thought the first paragraph points out a perceived ignorance that females don't understand their own genitals. The second paragraph submits that women should educate themselves before they speak about these things publicly. Either way I think it was offensive, whether or not it was meant to be is up for debate.

Yeh, I found myself having to reread his post a few times to make sure I was reading it right. Didn't see how "vagina" could be considered vulgar unless I was in the Bible belt.

Loved the hangout. I'm looking forward to the next one.

My point is the use of the term "vagina" in common parlance or usage bespeaks a fundamental ignorance of the female body and female sexuality consistent with misogyny or at least a suppression of the female experience. Thus, when someone says "vaginal" in the context of speaking about a not-often-discussed genre fiction that is specifically female focused, romance focused and sex focused, I take it as some sort of well-intentioned but kind of misguided appropriation of the word in a specifically positive and evangelistic discussion of works of fiction.

The furor, if I can call it that, that kicked up around the use of this word and Felicia Day's own hesitancy to use it to describe the endeavor speaks to the perceived corruptness of the word "vagina" in many people's minds.

I'd also point out that there are a number of slang terms that have their base in the word "vagina", whereas I can't really think of any with respect to "labia" and "vulva" as these are less well known and often more correct terms to be used.

I have no problem with any of these words. I merely noted to myself and now to you the reader that in the discussions that happened in the hangout and in the comments on Google+ and, I suspect, Twitter seem to contain a fundamental mistake as to the term being used. I found it ironic in that people were trying to own the word but in many cases using it wrongly.

If I give offense to anyone, you have my apologies.

Lepton wrote: "My point is the use of the term "vagina" in common parlance or usage bespeaks a fundamental ignorance of the female body and female sexuality consistent with misogyny or at least a suppression of t..."

While I'm occasionally amused/horrified by the use of the word vagina in hazy context when the literal interpretation is somewhat off (most especially the portmanteau vajazzling, because ladies, sticking rhinestones on your venus mound might be a little silly, but stinking them in your vagina is a all kinds of crazy), I don't think that's what's happening here.

Vagina is generally an acceptable and understandable synecdoche for female genitals or, in the case of 'vaginal fantasy,' for women more generally(or does it become a metonym at that point, why didn't I learn this in college).

While you could argue for calling it "labial fantasy", or "vulval fantasy", you're still speaking metaphorically with the disadvantage the adjective forms of those words are less recognizable especially in the case of vulval, which otherwise is a better contender that labial.
If we want to locate the seat of female sexuality for metaphorical precision I'm interested that you didn't suggest 'clitoral fantasy' which would probably be my choice.
I'm sorry, these are stylistic arguments, your argument seems to be political, though I'm not sure if I understand it.

As to the 'corruptness' of the word vagina, well, that's not the vagina's fault and I don't see how using the word in a positive context can do anything but lessen its negative connotations.


(This is not a discussion I ever expected to have on S&L,so thank you Veronica, Felicia and Lepton).

What Kate said.

We could call it g-spot fantasy, but apparently that doesn't exist:

http://jezebel.com/5879080/youre-neve...

Lepton wrote: "That said, it was a very enjoyable hangout and I hope to hear some actual discussion of the book next time. "

Eight words in, I thought that we might actually see a positive comment from Lepton. I was wrong.

Apparently there is a vaginal goodreads group now: http://www.goodreads.com/group/show/6...

Hehe! Going~~

I wonder what their group pic is going to be...

Should just take that logo and maybe add a wand sword something magical/fantasy based.

I was thinking more like a flower. I like multi-layered meanings. Haha! Language of Flowers.

Like this:

Ala wrote: "Should just take that logo and maybe add a wand sword something magical/fantasy based."

Or tattoo.

Tamahome wrote: "Ala wrote: "Should just take that logo and maybe add a wand sword something magical/fantasy based."

Or tattoo."

I like where this is going.

As I read all of these posts I couldn't help but think to myself "God I love this book group!!!" Thank you everybody for the laughs. Literally out loud. While in my office at work. I have got to get my wife to join sometime soon.

For a logo (in addition to the choices above) they could use just about anything from Georgia O'Keefe. :0)

My point is the use of the term "vagina" in common parlance or usage bespeaks a fundamental ignorance of the female body and female sexuality consistent with misogyny or at least a suppression of the female experience.

Normally one has to attend an expensive, private university in order to hear something so fatuous and condescending. Thank you, Internet!

(Assuming, of course, that this isn't an outright Poe of bad gender-theory writing, in which case: Well done!)

I have vaginal fantasies....





(attempting to degrade the thread further).