The History Book Club discussion

Hello Everyone,

For the week of February 6th - February 12th, we are reading the Introduction, Book the First and I, II, and II of A Tale of Two Cities.

The first week's reading assignment is:

Week One: February 6th - February 12th (2012)::

Week One - February 6 - February 12
(pages ix - 24)
Introduction by Frederick Busch ix
Preface to the First Edition xvii
Book the First—Recalled to Life
I. The Period 13
II. The Mail 15
III. The Night Shadows 21

We will open up a thread for each week's reading. Please make sure to post in the particular thread dedicated to those specific chapters and page numbers to avoid spoilers. We will also open up supplemental threads as we did for other books.

This book will be kicked off on February 6th. We look forward to your participation. Amazon, Barnes and Noble, Powell's and other noted on line booksellers do have copies of the book and shipment can be expedited. The book can also be obtained easily at your local library, or on your Kindle. And to make things even easier; this book is available "free" on line as either an ebook download or an audiobook.This weekly thread will be opened up either during the weekend before or on February 6th.

There is no rush and we are thrilled to have you join us. It is never too late to get started and/or to post.

Becky will be leading this discussion. But since this is Becky's first time moderating a book in the History Book Club; Bentley will be co-moderating this selection.

Welcome,

~Bentley


TO ALWAYS SEE ALL WEEKS' THREADS SELECT VIEW ALL

by Charles Dickens

REMEMBER NO SPOILERS ON THE WEEKLY NON SPOILER THREADS

Notes:

It is always a tremendous help when you quote specifically from the book itself and reference the chapter and page numbers when responding. The text itself helps folks know what you are referencing and makes things clear.

Citations:

If an author or book is mentioned other than the book and author being discussed, citations must be included according to our guidelines. Also, when citing other sources, please provide credit where credit is due and/or the link. There is no need to re-cite the author and the book we are discussing however. For citations, add always the book cover, the author's photo when available and always the author's link.

If you need help - here is a thread called the Mechanics of the Board which will show you how:

http://www.goodreads.com/topic/show/2...

Glossary

Remember there is a glossary thread where ancillary information is placed by the moderator. This is also a thread where additional information can be placed by the group members regarding the subject matter being discussed.

http://www.goodreads.com/topic/show/7...

Bibliography

There is a Bibliography where books cited in the text are posted with proper citations and reviews. We also post the books that the author may have used in his research or in his notes. Please also feel free to add to the Bibliography thread any related books, etc with proper citations or other books either non fiction or historical fiction that relate to the subject matter of the book itself. No self promotion, please.

by Charles Dickens

Chapter Overviews and Summaries
Introduction

A Tale of Two Cities by Charles Dickens is the story of two cities, Paris and London, and two men in the direct context of the French Revolution. It's a page-turner about love, loyalty, honesty and redemption as well as hatred, revenge, subterfuge and death. Glad you could join us.

If you are using the GoodReads edition, or any other free download you probably don't have an "Introduction" as such, because recent ones are still under copyright protection. But there have been a number of excellent Introductions written for the book in the 150+ years it's been in publication.

If you have not read the book and are allergic to spoilers it's not always wise to read the Introductions before reading the book because the authors of these insightful pieces often give their input on the whole book, characters, plot, themes, structures and all with no thought about spoilers. That said, they make for excellent reading after finishing the basic book.

To introduce without spoilers, I'll try to give a broad overview to this darkest of all the Dickens novels.

Most of the introductions I've read talk about the reasons Dickens wrote the book, noting the political climate of the times. For some time Dickens had been convinced that unless strong reform measures were passed by Parliament, England would descend "...into such a Devil of a conflagration as never has been beheld since," (the French Revolution).

** The above quote is from a letter Dickens wrote to A.H. Layard a liberal parliamentarian of the times. - "Letters, vol 7, p 587, edited by Graham Storey, Kathleen Tillotson, and Angus Easson. Oxford: Oxford University Press, 1978." And is quoted in the "Introduction" of "A Tale of Two Cities: Charles Dickens" Barnes & Noble Classics, New York, 2003. Introduction and Notes by Gillen D'Arcy Wood, pg xiii. [ISBN-13:978-1-59308-332-8 or ISBN-10:1-59308-332-7] **


The background and setting for the book may be the French Revolution, but, as Frederick Busch says in his Introduction, (Signet edition) ".... to Dickens, all life is domestic, no matter on what scale he writes it, and no matter its political or historical context." So the plot is not so much about the Revolution as it is about what the Revolution does to individuals, to people living in those times.

But Dickens wanted to get "those times" correct. The work was first published in 1859, about 60 or 70 years after the timeframe of the setting, 1775-1793, so he had to do quite a lot of research on the Revolution which occurred between 1786 and1794 to achieve the level of authenticity he wanted. The characters and their specific situations are fictional, but their general issues are as close to the very real times as Dickens, with all his research, could get.

Because of the setting, Introductions sometimes include some background about the French Revolution itself - that it started with a demand for a return of the Estates General, escalated to the creation of the National Assembly, escalated again with Louis XVI's extra guards which created panic in the general population and then rioting (storming the Bastille). So a constitutional monarchy was established, but Austria didn't like that so she took up arms against France and as a result of France winning some battles, a National Convention replaced any kind of an official monarchy, constitutional or not. The National Convention worked for a couple years, until the members split into factions and the more radical, known as the Jacobins, got control. In order to maintain power, a 12-man "Committee of Public Safety" ordered the execution (by guillotine) of anyone who might possibly be considered an enemy. This period was known as the Reign of Terror and it is estimated that about 25,000 people died as it worked its way through the population. Finally, a pro-religion/monarchy counter-revolution started up and the leaders of the Reign of Terror were themselves put to the guillotine. The is the time frame and the place in which a goodly chunk of A Tale of Two Cities takes place.

Also, a common feature in the introduction is a discussion of personal life at the time. In 1857 Dickens was working feverishly, traveling, acting and writing while his less vibrant wife remained at home with their 10 children. While working on the play, "The Frozen Deep" by his friend Wilkie Collins , Dickens met the 18 year-old woman, Ellen Ternen, fell in love and a couple years later separated from his wife. All of this took a toll on his health.


****
The Research:
The book used most extensively for research was The French Revolution by Thomas Carlyle . Dickens read it and reread it - he carried it around with him. He sent two cartloads of books his friend had obtained from the library back because Carlyle had synthesized the information so well. Both men were interested in using the French Revolution to show England that it needed to pass more reform measures or something like what happened in France might very well result. Carlyle also wrote in a very passionate manner - as though he were living right in the Revolution. Yet it had happened almost 50 years prior and it was a thoroughly researched history book.

From Goodreads:
"The book that established Thomas Carlye's reputation when first published in 1837, this spectacular historical masterpiece has since been accepted as the standard work on the subject. It combines a shrewd insight into character, a vivid realization of the picturesque, and a singular ability to bring the past to blazing life, making it a reading experience as thrilling as any novel. As John D. Rosenberg observes in his Introduction (to Carlyle's work), The French Revolution is “one of the grand poems of [Carlyle’s] century, yet its poetry consists in being everywhere scrupulously rooted in historical fact.”


Chapter Overviews and Summaries

Dickens' Preface to the First Edition:
***
The Author's Preface

WHEN I was acting‚ with my children and friends‚ in Mr. WILKIE COLLINS’S drama of The Frozen Deep‚ I first conceived the main idea of this story. A strong desire was upon me then to embody it in my own person; and I traced out in my fancy the state of mind which it would necessitate the presentation to an observant spectator‚ with particular care and interest.

As the idea became familiar to me‚ it gradually shaped itself into its present form. Throughout its execution‚ it has had complete possession of me; I have so far verified what is done and suffered in these pages‚ as that I have certainly done and suffered it all myself.

Whenever any reference (however slight) is made here to the condition of the French people before or during the Revolution‚ it is truly made‚ on the faith of trustworthy witnesses. It has been one of my hopes to add something to the popular and picturesque means of understanding that terrible time‚ though no one can hope to add anything to the philosophy of Mr. CARLYLE wonderful book.


Charles Dickens
Tavistock House‚ London‚
November‚ 1859.

****************************************************************
Book the First: Recalled to Life

I. The Period

This is a very short background chapter which sets out a comparison between England and France of 1775 - about 10 years prior to the French Revolution. Dickens mentions the monarchies, the English spiritualists, a list of grievances from America, the "sister of the shield and trident" means the Britain and France. He goes on with French finances and crime punished by the guillotine, the rampant English crime and hanging as punishment. The two countries are very similar in that era.


II. The Mail
This chapter is longer and describes a horse-pulled mail coach struggling to get up a hill with the passengers walking to lighten the load. It's almost midnight and the group is on a very treacherous stretch of road as it provides bandits cover in the adjoining trees. The passengers all appear to be heavily clothed to the point of being almost in hiding. They carry several guns for protection, everyone is suspicious of each other. A horseman rides up putting all on further guard. The horseman asks for Jarvis Lorry - our first named character - and gives him a written message from T. and Co. (Tellis Bank). Jarvis tells the messenger that his reply to the message is "Recalled to life." Jarvis gets back in the coach and after the guard settles, the coach is on its way. The horseman, named Jerry, dismounts and starts to walk his tired horse. Everyone wonders about the strange message.


III. The Night Shadows
Jarvis is restless thinking his own thoughts, the horseman takes his time getting back to the bank, also thinking about the reply message. But Jarvis is a thorough bank employee who nevertheless cannot get it out of his mind that he is going to "dig some one out of a grave." He talks to his vision of the man he is going for who has been buried for nearly 18 years and had abandoned all hope. Jarvis imagines digging with a spade and a key. The mail coach travels on in the mists and Jarvis continues to think like this over and over. The vision says he isn't sure if he wants to see "her." Finally Jarvis nods off and the next thing he sees the rising sun.

**********************************************
Citations in the order mentioned above:

] by
(Goodreads Edition - public domain)

Barnes & Noble Classics edition with Introduction by Gillen D'Arcy Wood

Signet edition, with Introduction and Notes by Frederick Busch

by Wilkie Collins

by Thomas Carlyle

Hi everybody,

Welcome to the discussion of A Tale of Two Cities by Charles Dickens. I hope everyone has had an opportunity to at least get the book, hopefully start it.

Do you have any thoughts about the language through Chapter 3? Is it difficult, easy, or just different?

Do you see the parallels Dickens is making between England and France of the late 18th century?

What do you think of the atmosphere of the book so far?

by Charles Dickens

I don't feel the language is that much different than the prose of today's literature, but the style of the books is more of a challenge for me to follow. I'm not one who reads many classics (although I certainly want to read more classics) and though I don't find Dickens too complex, it certainly is more detailed and in a different style than most modern authors. I'm still at the point where I'm trying to keep track of the various characters being introduced.

For me the language of classics used to be really, really difficult reading. The books in my English lit classes were so ... well ... yuck! But now, after a few years of reading more of them I find that they're not so bad and I can get used to the book after a few chapters.

About characters - I sometimes keep a little envelope or something as a bookmark and jot down the names of the characters and one or two words as to their relationship/position to the plot or other characters in the book.

Happy reading! :-)

They certainly do seem similar - I'd never thought of that before and I'm certainly familiar with both. But where the lines from the Book of Ecclesiastes (in the Bible) seem very personal and about living a full life, the lines from Dickens seem more of political and national life.

Dickens was not religious but he lived in a time where the culture may have influenced him that way.

Holy Bible: King James Version by Anonymous

Dickens was certainly not religious, but most writers from that time period knew the Bible pretty well. I think it was part of the their education. You're right that Dickens' focus was on the political and economic conditions of England and France in 1775. He is comparing it to similar conditions in England at the time he was writing.

Becky wrote: "Hi everybody,

Welcome to the discussion of by Charles Dickens. I hope everyone has had an opportunity to..."

I find the language easier in this, than in his other work I read,

Charles Dickens

I think he paints a picture quite well of each monarchy especially in the first chapter. I'd elaborate more but I am reading an e-version and am unsure how to cite stuff from an e-version as it gives no page numbers?

You did fine above! Thanks! :-) E-versions are either versions of the published book or they're in the public domain so I think you can find it.

For anyone who is unsure here are the directions for book citations and author links. Click on the "add book/author" at the top of the comment box and a little window will pop up. Put the name of the book you are reading in the "Search" box at the top and at the bottom where it says "add;" click the word "Cover." A list will come up and you can pick your book. Pick the one that's closest or click other editions next to each book shown. When you find yours, go to the bottom and click "link" or "book," and then the "add" button. It will go into your comment at the bottom- you can cut and paste from there if you need to.

For the author name click add book/author above the comment window again and your book will probably still be there. Click "author" at the top and the authors show up. Click "photo" at the bottom where it says "add: link photo" click photo the first time and link the second time. That way it will look just like mine except maybe with a different cover.

You don't have to link for Dickens more than one time per post but you do for other books and authors.

I have an ebook version:
by Charles Dickens

Oh! And if you (any member) can't find your book or get confused it's fine to use the on-line GoodReads book - which is the first one in the list of the "add book/author" list. If you follow the link it's available for online reading. by Charles Dickens

I question the statement that Dickens was not religious. Perhaps he did not always keep the Commandments but his books are replete with references to God, Christ, and prayer. Admittedly, he also criticized organized religion at times, particularly with respect to lack of true charity to the poor.

Here is a Wikipedia article on Dickens book on the life of Christ.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Life...

The way he treated his wife was certainly not the way a truly religious man would act.

Becky wrote: "You did fine above! Thanks! :-) E-versions are either versions of the published book or they're in the public domain so I think you can find it.

For anyone who is unsure here are the direct..."

Thank you Becky :)! Trying to get the hang of citing. What if I make a quote from the book...do I just put the chapter in parentheses from the e-book as I can't see a page number or do I put how far into the book I am (10 %)?

Bea wrote: "I question the statement that Dickens was not religious. Perhaps he did not always keep the Commandments but his books are replete with references to God, Christ, and prayer. Admittedly, he also ..."

Yes, I think he was both...so I guess I agree with both Emily and Bea. I think he was a man that questioned organized religion...a belief in God, but was not devout in a religion or an organized religion's followings? He seemed to think about spirituality and God though; but he also had shortcomings like most people. I think there are many religious men that may act the part of a "religious man" in public but behind the scenes are far different...maybe that was the case here or maybe he was a man that though believed in God, did not follow religious teaching or got into religious particulars but went about it his own way? Maybe he wanted things differently...like a different life for the poor...but had a difficult time applying these noble wishes in other areas of his life? Hmmm...something to think about.

I also think it is interesting he did not want the publication of Charles Dickens until after his immediate relatives died.

Why not? Was he afraid of public opinion? Was he unsure of this work or even God? Was he afraid it would bring him trouble?

Also, he separated from his wife Catherine and committed adultery which was way taboo for the time, questioning his religious followings...
although I've known priests and ministers to do this too?
He wasn't all bad to women--as he helped many learn to read and write--maybe he was trying to make up for his non-committal nature to his wife?
Just some thoughts, unsure of my own opinion...

Maybe we are having a semantic disagreement over what "religious" means. If it means not sinning, then there are precious few religious people I can think of. If it means going to church, I don't know whether Dickens did or not.

If it means a belief in a God/a Higher Power and life after death, Dickens makes reference after reference to this in his writing. Whether he was just appealing to his readership or actually believed in these things, I can't tell. I am inclined to think that he did.

Bea wrote: "Maybe we are having a semantic disagreement over what "religious" means. If it means not sinning, then there are precious few religious people I can think of. If it means going to church, I don't..."

Agreed! Well said. I think that is what I was trying to articulate--but moreover I think he didn't agree with the popular definition of "religion" either--mostly I think the people that acted more "religious" but were sinners like everyone else--those types seemed to rub him the wrong way. He did not believe in organized religion, sinned like all people, but certainly believed in God (that is my opinion of him). Yes, very few stay within the lines of the commandments...like I said many priests and ministers I know say one thing, do another haha :). I am long winded and don't always make a clear point but I agree with your statements:))

Left alone with 10 kids...God bless her is all I have to say. I wonder how they lived in comparison to him? That would be an interesting comparison as even in these chapters he speaks a lot about economic strife and differences in classes.

Autumn wrote: "...do I just put the chapter in parentheses from the e-book as I can't see a page number or do I put how far into the book I am (10 %)? "

I think chapter number would do it. We have so many editions floating around here that to try to make sense of page numbers or percentages would be very confusing. The free e-text available from Goodreads has whole chapters on one page.

Click on the book image below and when you get to the main book page click "Read Book. " You will see the text very nicely formatted into chapters only.

by Charles Dickens

Wow! I'm gone for a few hours and you guys get into a great discussion! :-)

I tend to agree that Dickens probably had some religious feeling but we pretty well know he wasn't big on some parts of organized religion. I found this:

"Although Dickens was baptized and reared in the Church of England and was a nominal Anglican for most of his life, he turned to Unitarianism in the 1840s as a Broad Church alternative. He associated with Unitarians until the end of his life. Early experience with Dissenters gave him a lifelong aversion to evangelical zeal, doctrinal disputation and sectarianism. Equally unsympathetic with High Church Anglicanism, he feared that the Oxford Movement might lead the English back to Roman Catholicism. Dickens, however, favored civil rights for Catholics and even once hoped his daughter would marry the Catholic Percy Fitzgerald, one of his literary protégés."
at: http://www25.uua.org/uuhs/duub/articl...

And this:

"Two great authors, Tolstoy and Dostoevsky, were influenced greatly by Dickens and spoke of him as "that great Christian writer," and yet he was not a religious novelist, though he lived in an age of religious novels. Like so many Victorian writers, he was not even a conventional Christian. He was brought up in the Church of England, but the Dickens's were not conspicuously devout, although his mother may have succumbed briefly during his youth to a bout of evangelical fervor which he may have felt was oppressive and which may help to explain his lifelong aversion to evangelicalism and the presence in his work of several sardonic portraits of psalm-singing, sermonizing evangelicals who are thoroughly hypocritical — as Mrs. Joe is, when she refuses to hear Christmas Carols because she is fond of them. He was reticent on the subject of religion, but we can let an earnest —perhaps too earnest — letter which he wrote to the Reverend D. Macrae speak for him:

'With a deep sense of my great responsibility always upon me when I exercise my art, one of my most constant and most earnest endeavours has been to exhibit in all my good people some faint reflections of our great Master, and unostentatiously to lead the reader up to those teachings as the great source of all moral goodness. All my strongest illustrations are drawn from the New Testament; all my social abuses are shown as departures from its spirit; all my good people are humble, charitable, faithful, and forgiving. Over and over again, I claim them in express words as disciples of the Founder of our religion; but I must admit that to a man (or a woman) they all arise and wash their faces, and do not appear unto men to fast.'

"(The reference, at the close of the letter, is to Matthew 6:18; Dickens's religious emphasis, in his work, is indeed on the New Testament rather than on the Old, on Christ rather than on Jehovah.)"

http://www.victorianweb.org/authors/d...

I am enjoying the posts...some interesting thoughts!

Becky wrote: "Autumn wrote: "...do I just put the chapter in parentheses from the e-book as I can't see a page number or do I put how far into the book I am (10 %)? "

I think chapter number would do it. We hav..."

Thank you Becky! And thanks for info on Dickens...sheds light on the discussion.

Happy 200th Birthday, Mr. Dickens! Thanks for the pleasure you have given me.

Becky wrote: "They certainly do seem similar - I'd never thought of that before and I'm certainly familiar with both. But where the lines from Ecclesiastes in the Holy Bible: King James Version ..."

Becky, we need to have proper citations for any book not the one being discussed.

Please add the proper citation:
by Anonymous (no photo available)

I will delete this once message 7 is edited.

Mark wrote: "I too have not read many classics and look forward to finally filling that void. I found the first few chapters enjoyable, but difficult to digest mainly due to keeping track of characters. However..."


Mark same issue - we need proper citations on any other book or author not being the book being read.

Therefore, the Bible needs to be cited as I did in Message 26.

Normally, it is book cover, author's photo when available and always the author's link.


Please add the proper citation:
by Anonymous (no photo available)

Please edit message 17 and I will delete this message once correction is made.

Good kickoff Becky.

Emily wrote: "The proper citation for the Bible is not anonymous. It is God or the writer of the individual book within the Bible. Ecclesiates was written by King Solomon. I will not cite the Bible as anonymous." Emily, we just add the citations as they appear in goodreads. So that folks can find the book and reference it themselves. And one of our rules asks that citations are done so that the book can be referenced here on goodreads and populates the site so that anybody can cross reference where any book or author is discussed (here or anywhere else).

Mark and Emily, we always give folks the chance to fix any potential problems with citations. If the citations are not made however, the post is deleted. We are always consistent and try to be fair and equitable with everyone.

We also are willing to help anyone who needs assistance and asks for help and we are very patient.

Razoor, we are here to help. Dickens is quite beloved and is a great story teller so I hope you stay with it. And ask as many questions as you have about this week's reading and we will all pitch in to help you.

Of course, it is written in English and if English is not your primary language some of the writing style may need a little work for you to understand but I can honestly say that this book is worth it.

So ask whatever questions that you may have. We will help you.

Also, I'm totally English speaking but reading classics is a bit different. In Victorian days they didn't write like they spoke - they thought writing should be more formal, more flowery. Sometimes the syntax and vocabulary is different, too.

In the 20th and 21st centuries writing has become an extension of speaking but it wasn't exactly so for Dickens and his contemporaries.

I've read quite a lot of classics in the last ten years or so but still sometimes I have to read a sentence or a paragraph two or three times to get it. Other times I just flow right along. And that's something which affects reading contemporary works, too - I just have to get used to the language in some of them and that takes from a chapter to half the book sometimes.

Keep working on it - it'll come and it will flow - or - mostly. :-)

Bentley wrote: "Becky wrote: "They certainly do seem similar - I'd never thought of that before and I'm certainly familiar with both. But where the lines from Ecclesiastes in the [book:Holy Bible: King James Ver..."

Done - thanks - I'm trying to catch them all - and feeling much better today, too.

Well, Razor's post gets me thinking, too. What IS going on?

Chapter Overviews and Summaries
Chapter 1: The Period

Chapter 1 link

This chapter sets the stage and introduces the extremes, and sometimes opposing features, of the intertwined arenas of historical and personal life. History and politics affect people! What was it like to live and love and be born and die - to be poor or to go to prison, or to be rich and blamed during the French Revolution?

Using his own style, almost specific to this book, Dickens compares France and England just before those "worst of times." His readers are living in 1859 and later - they have to be told how things were - it's history to them (albeit Dickens' view of history for the sake of the book) - just as WWII (70 years ago) is history to us. The average life-span in 1850 was about 40 years - today in the US it's about 75 years.

Dickens is saying that France and England were were quite a lot alike in many ways during those times - in France it turned into a revolution - the reader understands this.

The personal aspects which Dickens stresses in this opening chapter are crime and family along with very grim life and death issues. Death (the Farmer and the allusions to ghosts) and Fate (the Woodsman will be playing a huge part in the upcoming story.

Chapter Overviews and Summaries
Chapter 2 - The Mail
Chapter 2 link.

This is a rather page-turner of a chapter in which we find a mail coach with a few passengers taking a road which is very dangerous due to highway robberies. The night is dark, the coach drivers carry guns and everyone is afraid of all manner of things including each other. During the ride, a message is delivered by horseman named Jerry to Mr. Lorry, a passenger.

Mr. Lorry replies to the message with his own three-word response:
"Recalled to Life." This is very mysterious to all who hear and to the reader as well - someone has been dead? Who? And they have been resurrected? How - as a ghost?

Everyone rides on - Mr. Lorry with the coach and Jerry on his horse.

Chapter Overviews and Summaries
Chapter 3 - The Night Shadows
Chapter 3 link.


Everyone thinks his own thoughts. "...every human creature is constituted to be that profound secret and mystery to every other."

And the following lines continue the style of repetition with the theme of secrets enclosed in hearts. .

We are following Jerry, the horseman, and Jarvis Lorry, the banker, as they travels to their respective destinations. Jerry is confused by Jarvis' answer and Jarvis is mulling over the meaning of his words, too.

Dark and light, death and love, carrying secrets, buried eighteen years - buried alive for eighteen years! and now "returned to life."

Finally, regarding understanding a text that was written over 150 years ago by a master of story-telling, I don't think a first-time reader is supposed to understand these first chapters. Understanding will come later - slowly, and over many chapters. Chapter 4 (next week) will reveal a whole lot. Hope this all helps.

If you're reading this for the umpteenth time it's still amazing how much Dickens packed into those few pages. This is a book which can be read, reread and then read yet again for more and clearer understanding.

QUESTION: Is this your (anyone) first time reading A Tale of Two Cities| or have you read it before?

Hello, really great discussion here!

Becky, I'm reading an e-book version of the book, so it was really nice touch to provide some introduction to the book - thank you!

I must admit that the first chapter for me was a bit of the battlefield. I honestly do not remember that he wrote so complicated sentences in other works. Well, I didn't read so many of them (I certainly intend to, as many as possible :-), and my favourite so far is by Charles Dickens. The other two chapters weren't so difficult. They were only too short, I cannot wait for the end of the week to move onto the next chapters ;-)

Regarding Dickens' behaviour to his wife, it seems there were a lot of factors in their marriage that made it so unsatisfactory for both of them. It's curious that after separation she left home only with the eldest child, while her own sister remained there with all the other Dickens' children. What actually gave me creeps was the fact that 45-year old Dickens fell in love with an 18-year old girl. She might have been extraordinarily smart and remarkable in any way his wife wasn't, but I still feel a slight disgust by that kind of relationship. I mean, some of his own kids were older than her... But - that has nothing to do with his literary work. Sometimes it's really better to not know much about someone's private life :-)

Becky wrote: "QUESTION: Is this your (anyone) first time reading A Tale of Two Cities or have you read it before? ..."

This is my second time reading it but the first time, I had just begun to read classics and struggled a little. I'm looking forward to a deeper understanding this time. I'm also hoping to get a better appreciation for Dickens. He's not my favourite author; his writing style often doesn't engage me, and I find a darkness in his works that is more disturbing than edifying. That said, I've only read three of his works, so I'd like to give him another chance.

This is my first time reading it!
I've only read Charles Dickens...I think that is the only one anyway....will have to go back through books read.

I will say I always felt bad for Marie Antoinette. I understand why everyone gave her such a hard time, so many people starving while she spent money on frivolous things (but did she really know?). Maybe it was a case of knowing something too late. The media was out of hand with painting her as a villain. She from documentaries I have watched (would cite but don't know names, it was many years ago) was an excellent mother especially for the time. I mean much more attentive hands on with her children. She was naive and in the dark I think for far too long...her downfall.

It might be the language that I am misreading...but Dickens seems to be speaking in a neutral way about England and France. I admire this perspective...that people are really more alike than we think...and there are two sides to every story.
Another thought I had for some reason while reading this: Very few people seem to handle having power well.

Zeljka wrote: "Hello, really great discussion here!

Becky, I'm reading an e-book version of the book, so it was really nice touch to provide some introduction to the book - thank you! "

Thank you Zelijka! I'm also enjoying the discussion and the book so far! (I've read the book before but I love to turn people on to a good book - just a reader, I guess.)

Yes, Dickens was a complex man - a genius with a less than admirable personal life. I've never read a full biography of the man but it might be quite interesting what with all his interests. I've got Charles Dickens: A Life by Claire Tomalin, a new biography by a great writer, on my wish list.

Not to be picky but it might have been easier for you to have included the full link from the bottom up with the reference to it in the post. - To do that just add it in and the code (and picture/links) will go to the bottom of your post. You can leave the citations at the bottom of the posts - like this:

by Claire Tomalin

Zeljka wrote: "Hello, really great discussion here!

Becky, I'm reading an e-book version of the book, so it was really nice touch to provide some introduction to the book - thank you!

I must admit that the firs..."

Wow, interesting.... well hats off to her sister then for raising the kiddos. That poor lady...poor kiddos. I guess I'm not inclined to feel too sorry for his wife then, especially since she didn't seem to care for him much anyway, and might have been glad to be rid of him. It would be interesting to be a fly on the wall in that house. I wonder where it went wrong? Or was it all wrong from the beginning? And how do you manage to have 10 kids if it was all wrong? And did he have a thing for younger women, like you said maybe I don't want to know too much.:)

Cleo wrote: "This is my second time reading it but the first time, I had just begun to read classics and struggled a little. ."

I think probably many of us first read it in high school - I did. I didn't care for it at all. I reread it many years later, after I'd read other books by Dickens, Bleak House and Great Expectations. I thought I could enjoy it now - nope - that time it was just too dark. Then I read it one more time because a group had chosen it and this time some kind of light came through and I got past the style and the darkness to the intricacies of the plot and some of the themes. And this time I am fully enjoying the whole thing, reading carefully and more fully. I thoroughly enjoyed Bleak House from my first reading so I don't have a clue why it took me so long with this book.

and
by Charles Dickens

Becky wrote: "Yes, Dickens was a complex man - a genius with a less than admirable personal life. I've never read a full biography of the man but it might be quite interesting what with all his interests. I've got
by Claire Tomalin (no author photo) a new biography by a great writer, on my wish list. "

Great recommendation, Becky! Now after I have read a couple of things about Dickens, I am curious indeed to find out more. Like Autumn said, it would be interesting to be a fly on the wall in that house :-) I hope that Ms Tomalin also wrote about how his private life affected the development of his ideas and the works themselves... which would also be better to be read before :-)

I read this book when I was 12 ( I am 28 now) and the going was tough. I kind of liked this novel better than his other works, which is not saying much, because I thoroughly disliked reading Dickens as a kid- much preferred Thomas Hardy and the Bronte sisters when it came to the classics. This sort of worked for me even then, because of its setting, but looking back I realise I didn't fully appreciate it.
I find Chapter 1 kind of redundant- it wouldn't give me a particularly clear idea of France and England in the late 18th century, if I hadn't already read loads about them. But maybe Dickens was already writing for a similarly informed audience? in which case this is more like a homily than a piece of information.
Chapter 2 I was really surprised by how much I enjoyed the writing! I loved the little word pictures he gives of 18th century England, travel by stagecoach, the inn, the suspense of the messenger. I was a bit impatient with the description of the mist, but that's because I don't like descriptions of nature, objectively speaking it's a lovely para. I do like descriptions of people, houses, things, so I enjoyed the rest of this chapter- however Dickens I agree is not for speed reading, needs to be savoured slowly.
I lost some patience with the third chapter again. Dickens is no doubt trying to create atmosphere, but honestly, devoting an entire chapter to somebody's dreams.. was this novel serialised like other novels of this author's? That's one situation where this much padding would make sense.
But all in all, I am enjoying the book much better this time around:), found much more to appreciate. Found myself reading forward.

Sorry to do this but your post needs a couple of citations for Thomas Hardy and The Bronte Sisters in the first paragraph - like this:

Thomas Hardy
Bronte Sisters The Bronte Sisters


I love reading about the historical things like the coach and the roads. It's amazing how much historically accurate info is in this chapter. Go to the Glossary pages and check out what I've added so far - only to Chapter 6 (next week's reading) but you could stop scrolling on Chapter 2 or 3 - wherever.

I loved style in A Tale of Two Cities after I'd read the book a few times and knew what was going on - before that I was a bit lost.

Aparajita wrote: "I lost some patience with the third chapter again. Dickens is no doubt trying to create atmosphere, but honestly, devoting an entire chapter to somebody's dreams.. was this novel serialised like other novels of this author's? That's one situation where this much padding would make sense...."

Yes, I believe it was a serialization for his new periodical All Around the World. Like you, I'll have to read it with that in mind and perhaps his style will make more sense. I think your comments made me realize some of my discomfort with Dickens; often his writing seems almost contrived, as if he is trying too hard, either generally or to achieve some effect. But I want to push from my thoughts my preconceived opinions about him and try to look at this book with fresh eyes (and mind!)

Remember if citing books or authors; use the citation rules.

For any book aside from A Tale of Two Cities, you must cite the book cover, the author's photo and the author's link. Here is an example:

by Charles Dickens

If you are just citing an author, you must add the author's photo if available and always the author's link.

Here is an example:

Charles Dickens

When folks are discussing just A Tale of Two Cities (no need of a citation on this thread)

Zeljka, if you had not added the section from Becky's post you would have had to add an author citation for Tomalin like this:

Claire Tomalin (no author photo)

This is so easy once you get the hang of it and only takes two seconds.

From what I've read, Dickens often tried for the effect of gaining sympathy or antipathy for his characters, or most of them anyway.

And this brings me back to Aparajita's message, #44. Perhaps the reason for the dreamy sequence in Chapter 3 is to gain sympathy from the reader for Jarvis Lorry because it shows him as more than a "man of business." Lorry remembers and cares about this person who has been "buried alive" for 18 years. At the end of the chapter Lorry wakes to the light of dawn and sees a kind of resurrection.

Great post Becky and good explanation for Aparajita.

Yes, that makes sense, now that you explain it...it rounds the character out...
Sorry about the citations, I've been using Goodreads for a couple of weeks- I didn't realise I had to do author citations as well. I'm enjoying this book on my second read, I suppose 12 is rather young for such a book. I'm sure it will improve if I read it again :)

Becky, I appreciate your comments regarding first time readers of A Tale of Two Cities. As this was my first plunge I don’t feel so bad now. Your comment about life span in relation to past history was very interesting.

Aparajita wrote: "Yes, that makes sense, now that you explain it...it rounds the character out...
Sorry about the citations, I've been using Goodreads for a couple of weeks- I didn't realise I had to do author citat..."

Yes, citations are required but not for the book A Tale of Two Cities which because the entire thread is about this book - that book does not need a citation each and every time it is mentioned. But all different books or authors do need citations.

Check out post 46 it shows you how to do both kinds of citations. And the thread Mechanics of the Board which shows you how to do everything.