Fantasy Book Club discussion

As an indie author the price tag on my books has always been a grey area. I have never written to make money but I do want to be successful. Of course the trouble is do you represent success by how many downloads a book gets or by how many actual sales you make?

I think paying more than $5 is too much for an indie ebook, but currently my book is on Amazon for $2.99. I chose this price after research and advice told me this is what readers would expect to pay. I also found FREE sometimes came with a phobia and a lot of readers would avoid work that was being published for free because it highlighted a lack of confidence in the author's work.

So I am interested (not self-promoting) what do you think about books that are free and how much would you pay for an undiscovered indie author?

As a reader I don't think I would pay more than $2.99 for an ebook, whether it be by an indie or a traditional author. As you don't get anything tangible to hold in your hands, I'm not willing to pay as much as for a real book. Free books don't put me off at all - I think they are a great way to get to know an author's work.
As a writer, I think having a mix of prices is the way to go. Perhaps short works should be free or $0.99 whilst longer works should be in the $2.99 bracket.

I agree with everything Elizabeth said - that's my thoughts on the matter also.

I love free ebooks. I think it is a great way to grab a reader that you may not have gotten otherwise. I am a reader not a writer (though i would like to be) and i can say that i have now read the first book in a couple of series which were free and have now bought the second books, and will buy the third as well.

I almost think of it as a try before you buy, though that is simplifying it to the extreme. What i can't stand is tradtional authors selling the second or third books in their series for the same price you could get the paper back for, and in some cases only a £1 (i'm in the UK) cheaper than the hardback! that is ridiculous.

what about if writers give their works away and hope that the readers donate after reading?

Eko wrote: "what about if writers give their works away and hope that the readers donate after reading?"

I think that is a good option to. Especially if it is a debut novel.

I agree with Lindsay. I have so many books to read that I rarely look for any new ones & don't generally trust or spend any time looking at debut novels, especially if they're self-published. If it is free, maybe. A free short story has even a better shot with me, though.

I think the idea of donating after reading is excellent. I know with Smashwords you can put your work on for readers set the price. I did this before I signed up with KDP Select and every penny I made there seemed even more worthwhile.

So generally would you say an author that gives work away for free is still an author and those sales (albeit non-profit) are still sales?

LE wrote: "I think the idea of donating after reading is excellent. I know with Smashwords you can put your work on for readers set the price. I did this before I signed up with KDP Select and every penny I m..."

Absolutely, just because it is free doesn't mean people are going to take it, you still have to "sell" the book.

And you can see the number of downloads and get a pretty accurate prediction of where sales may sit if you write a second book, especially if it is in a series.

I think it also provides a bit of "good-will" for the readers, The author is offering the book for free and you choose how much to pay for it (or whether to buy a second book if it was free) based on how much you enjoyed the book. Rather than having to pay an arbitrary amount whether you like the book or not.

It sits for me the same as buying a music cd because you like one track and then finding out the rest are rubbish, you can't get your money back and you can't enjoy your purchase. You never buy that bands music again so everyone loses.

Of course i could just be rambling now.

As a reader, I'm very wary of free books. I downloaded quite a few when I first got my Kindle in a fit of enthusiasm, and a high proportion were either unreadable (many typos, bad grammar, etc) or completely not my thing. On Amazon, you can't see the sample if it's free, so you have to decide based solely on blurb and reviews. Inevitably free books attract a lot of oddball reviews, too. Sometimes it's worth it, if it's the first of a long series, or it's a book I've already got on my radar, or it's a one-day special, or it's a short story or novella taster, but a full-length book that's permanently free? No, not usually. It suggests the author doesn't value their work.

My comfort zone for an unknown indie author is half the cheapest paperback price (£1-3 in UK prices, which is roughly $1.50-4.50 in US prices). And I hate paying more than paperback price for any ebook.

I agree, Pauline. I did the same (downloaded a ton) when I first got my Kindle. Some were classics I'd loved forever (Black Beauty, Little Women, etc) but the formatting was so 'off' it was hard to read them sometimes. The free 'newbies' were often not my thing at all, despite the 'blurbs' and reviews and at least two were so badly written I started strongly suggesting my son get busy with his stories because they were 100% better than the trash I'd just read. I'm perfectly willing to pay 1/2 the paperback price for a digital copy but full-price when they don't have the cost to back it up? WHY?

Martha wrote: "I agree, Pauline. I did the same (downloaded a ton) when I first got my Kindle. Some were classics I'd loved forever (Black Beauty, Little Women, etc) but the formatting was so 'off' it was hard ..."

Oh I totally agree that ebooks shouldn't be as expensive as actual books, especially given you can publish for free and have (after you've paid the commission) 100% profit.

Did your son ever publish? And if so what is he charging?

No, he hasn't yet. Most of what he writes is hand-written so until he can get a working computer, it's going to be difficult to say the least. I may offer to type them up for him, next time I'm home, and see if we can get a few published.

While ebooks may be "free" in dollars to publish, it is not without cost. There is time, effort, red tape, and if you're dealing with Smashwords, formatting hell.

And an author puts the same effort into writing your ebook that they do for a paper book. I think while it's reasonable to want to pay less for an ebook, nobody is entitled to get them for free unless they're in public domain.

Pauline wrote: "As a reader, I'm very wary of free books. I downloaded quite a few when I first got my Kindle in a fit of enthusiasm, and a high proportion were either unreadable (many typos, bad grammar, etc) or ..."

I must have been very lucky so far. I've downloaded a number of free ebooks and so far they've been very good. Most of them are the first book in a series, where the author is trying to pique my interest in the rest of the series, so perhaps more time is taken over these?

I remember that Coldplay tried the 'donate after listening' idea. Once. Just once. I think that shows it really doesn't work.

I wouldn't want my work given away free ( other than for a short, specific promotion). Amazon run the "Look Inside" feature which allows readers a taste of your writing, and that should be enough. If it's free, I think it will be as valued as a free newspaper.

I'm trying the free book giveaway on Smashwords right now for one of my books (it's a limited offer for 10 days). Sales were very, very slow before I decided to do this (one in total!), and I thought this might kick start them. If people download it for free and post reviews, this might help for future sales. So far, I've had 22 people take me up on the offer.

I just don't feel that I want to keep giving my books away for free, though. Yes, I want to get my name out there, but, at the same time, it would be really nice to have some actual sales! :) And, personally, I don't think $2.99 and $4.99 are unreasonable prices for ebooks.

Cheryl, you might want to try staggering the use of your free days, rather than use all 10 at once.

I question why i should have to pay $4.99 for a debut self published author when there is no physical product? If the author went a traditional route then there are editors and proof readers that make sure the book is as perfect as it can be, but often the self published books do not have that system set up. I may still end up not liking it but then it would be because something didn't click for me personally, not just because terrible spelling and grammar made it impossible to read.

And again i mention that i have downloaded a few free "book 1s" and have now actually purchased more from those authors because the story and writing was top notch. They have earned my loyalty and my cash.

I download a whole bunch of free ebooks but guess what? I just leave them waiting to be read on my nook. Lol. I would never pay $5 for a self published author. Unless I knew the person. I even think $2.99 is a little much to be honest. I like the $.99-1.99 bracket. If you wanted to break up your book you could offer the first chapters free and hope readers want to continue reading it.
I like ebooks though. And would pay more for an author I know or suspect I will like.

I feel guilty paying less than about 5 bucks for any book, self-published or not. I just bought one for 2.99 and really think it's worth more than that. You can't even get lunch for 5 bucks! And I often re-read books...can't re-eat lunch.

This is actually a very good learning experience for me. I'm gaining a whole lot of insight in to what readers expect from ebooks.

My first book was published by a small press, which had also agreed to publish my second book. Unfortunately, the company closed down in October 2011 due to health issues for the owner, so I was forced to look at alternative options for my books. I chose the self-publishing route. I really liked the idea of the higher royalties with no middleman! When I published the ebooks, I had a hard time setting the price for them because this was all so new to me. I thought $4.99 for a 344-page book was quite reasonable. Obviously, I was wrong and I may have to re-evaluate my prices! :D

On the other hand, I do feel strongly that I have put a lot of time and effort into my books and have had several different people edit them for me. I take great pride in my writing and want to create the best product I possibly can.

Traci, I do offer a 15% sample of all my ebooks on Smashwords, so readers have a chance to read the first couple of chapters.

I usually figure I get what I pay for. I don't understand many people's objections to ebook prices. A book is a book. I enjoy reading it - often more so in ebook fashion as I don't have to squint to read tiny print. To me the value of a book is in the enjoyment or enrichment I get out of reading it.

Barnes & Noble has 'Free Fridays' and offer something for free. I have collected many of them but don't think I've read one yet. They also have many books either free or for .99 or 1.99.

I just meant if I see a ebook that I 'might' be interested in I'll more likely buy it the cheaper it is. An ebook for $.99-$1.99 is more likely to make me make an impulse buy. And that's kind of what unknown authors are looking for.

Traci wrote: "I just meant if I see a ebook that I 'might' be interested in I'll more likely buy it the cheaper it is. An ebook for $.99-$1.99 is more likely to make me make an impulse buy. And that's kind of wh..."

True.

Traci wrote: "I just meant if I see a ebook that I 'might' be interested in I'll more likely buy it the cheaper it is. An ebook for $.99-$1.99 is more likely to make me make an impulse buy. And that's kind of wh..."

This is what I am thinking. I've written an epic book, which I am selling for $2.99. However I am in the process of breaking it down into three books (thankfully I wrote it in three parts) and I am thinking of selling each for $0.99.

I am considering having both a split version and the full version as it is now running along side each other to see what the market prefers.

Personally I snap up bargains and I like to see books that are usually $10.99 for free. That's my ideal price. : )

LE wrote: "This is what I am thinking. I've written an epic book, which I am selling for $2.99. However I am in the process of breaking it down into three books (thankfully I wrote it in three parts) and I am thinking of selling each for $0.99."

This sounds like a good idea. Some authors who have a series give the first one away for free and then price the rest at $2.99. I'm reading one at the moment and it's worked. I'm enjoying the free book so I'll probably buy the rest of them.

My own plan is to price my shorts for free, my novellas for $0.99 and my full length novels for $2.99. I think the key is to experiment with price to see what brings the most sales. That's the beauty of self-pubbing - you're the one in control.

Elizabeth wrote: "LE wrote: "This is what I am thinking. I've written an epic book, which I am selling for $2.99. However I am in the process of breaking it down into three books (thankfully I wrote it in three part..."

I second that. I wonder if publishing houses put this much thought into it.

I suppose they have much higher overheads so they need to charge more. But I wouldn't be surprised if we see the big publishing houses dropping their ebook prices soon to compete with the indies.

[Rubbing hands greedily]

Elizabeth wrote: "My own plan is to price my shorts for free, my novellas for $0.99 and my full length novels for $2.99."

I would say this is the perfect arrangement!

But (as a reader) can I make a plea to ALL authors - please make it clear which is which. There's nothing more frustrating than buying a cheap ebook thinking you've got a bargain, only to find it's a short story, not a full-length book.

Pauline wrote: But (as a reader) can I make a plea to ALL authors - please make it clear which is which. There's nothing more frustrating than buying a cheap ebook thinking you've got a bargain, only to find it's a short story, not a full-length book.

Couldn't agree more. It needs to say on the cover 'short story', or 'novella' if it doesn't I always assume it's a novel and like you say, it's very annoying when you discover your mistake!

Lindsay wrote: "I question why i should have to pay $4.99 for a debut self published author when there is no physical product? If the author went a traditional route then there are editors and proof readers that m..."

Oh, there *used* to be editors and proof-readers for print books. I've found several by well-known authors lately where that doesn't seem to be the case at all. Numerous typos, gender-switches, changes in tense, etc. Not all, mind you, but enough so it makes me wonder if anybody pre-reads these at all.

Elizabeth wrote: "Pauline wrote: But (as a reader) can I make a plea to ALL authors - please make it clear which is which. There's nothing more frustrating than buying a cheap ebook thinking you've got a bargain, on..."


It should say, on the purchasing page, how many words are written in the book. I always look at the words in the book before I make a purchase.

Jaq wrote: "I wonder if the big promotions like the one going at Smashwords this week are productive. I've been collecting a folder full of free books, gods know when I'll get the chance to read them all!"


I wonder the same thing as well. I know that when my husband first bought me an ereader, he got a whole bunch of free books. I found some of my favorite indie authors through it. I have bought every book that they wrote since then, so I would say that it does. Maybe not as much as we hope.

Martha wrote: "Lindsay wrote: "I question why i should have to pay $4.99 for a debut self published author when there is no physical product? If the author went a traditional route then there are editors and proo..."


I have noticed that too. I don't have problems with any new authors that self published. I really enjoy reading some of them, but everyone is different. I enjoy some of the indie authors and sometimes I think, I have read some books that some should have replaced.

IMO, not all books that are published using an editor, are worth buying. I've regretted a few. There really isn't a difference in indie authors. There may be some that you like and some that you don't.

Some of the indie authors have inspired me to write as well.

LE wrote: "As an indie author the price tag on my books has always been a grey area. I have never written to make money but I do want to be successful. Of course the trouble is do you represent success by how..."

I think that success is that you chanced writing it and putting it out there. If even one person likes it, then that is success.

As for the pricing, I wrote an 80,000 word novel and for the first few months had it at .99 then I moved it up to 4.99. I just finished a short story/novella and priced it as 2.99.(e book versions)

Amber wrote: "LE wrote: "As an indie author the price tag on my books has always been a grey area. I have never written to make money but I do want to be successful. Of course the trouble is do you represent suc..."

Success is a very personal thing. I am very proud of what I have acheived, but there is growing pressure to "do well", which does take the shine off good reviews and sales. Unfortunately I think because this is a relatively unexplored industry most of us (especially me) are running around like headless chickens, trying to work out what to do for the best, getting it wrong and retracing our chicken feet steps.

In this mess somehow we have to be able to assess how well we are doing and Amber is right that we are already successful for making it this far, but as the indie author industry grows it becomes less about personal acheivement and more about seeing the hen for the chickens.

There is still a stigma around FREE books and also around authors that give them away, so it is still very difficult to work out how to fairly distribute your work to readers and still be seen as a credible author (before we are seen as incredible authors of course).

I have nothing against authors that sell their books for nothing. I don't understand why there would be a stigma to it or the authors that do it. I haven't figured out what is wrong with that scenario. If my favorite band were to offer me a free cd, I would take it and not ask why. I would still enjoy the band so why not give the authors a shot. IMO. :)

I wish you luck on your success! I haven't sold many of mine but I measure my success through my kids. They love the stories that I wrote, even getting the library to purchase them so their friends can read it. That counts more than a thousand book sales.

Every time I suggest that they like it just because they are my kids, my daughter reminds me of the two stories that I wrote that they, not so nicely, told me they disliked. It was more like "Mom, that stories boring! Who cares that the kid ran away from home and which direction he went." and "When (so and so died), I didn't care because I couldn't connect."

So any that they like, makes me happy. What I think is also important is how much you, as the author, enjoy reading your book and how well you think that it is. Because if you're not happy then your readers won't be happy. If you second guess the story then they will second guess the story. Well, at least this is what I tell myself.

There is Personal success, writing a book and being proud of it, and there is Commercial success, actually selling said book to readers.

I think that is where the question lies. By under pricing your first book (whether free or .99 etc) you give yourself a better chance at the commercial success with your next books. It doesn't devalue your hard work it simply gives you a more marketable product and will see your book spread across a much wider base, and that, really, is just good business.

The math is quite simple.

50 people buy the book at $4.99.
1000 buy the book at $.50

Which would you prefer?

So if your book is good, you become known to those 1000 people, you then release your second book for $1.50, they buy it and more than likely (again if your book is good)tell their friends and followers to go buy your book. Before you know it, you become one of those authors able to sell their books consistantly at $4.99 and people are happy to pay it because they know they are going to get a good read out of it.

Lindsay wrote: "There is Personal success, writing a book and being proud of it, and there is Commercial success, actually selling said book to readers.

I think that is where the question lies. By under pricing..."

This is very good advice, Lindsay. As I said earlier, I'm still very new at this self-publishing business and struggled to set a reasonable price for my ebooks. Now that I've read several discussion threads such as this one, I can see how setting the price low to begin with might attract more readers. And, then later on, raise the price at bit while at the same time keeping it reasonable.

Offering my book for free for 10 days on Smashwords has netted me several downloads so far, so, hopefully, those readers who "bought" it will enjoy it and post good reviews and subsequently attract more readers.

I'm not expecting tremendous commercial success this early in the game; more so, I want to get my name out in to as wide a market as possible.

Amber wrote: "I have nothing against authors that sell their books for nothing. I don't understand why there would be a stigma to it or the authors that do it. I haven't figured out what is wrong with that scena..."

I think the stigma comes with being "indie." If my favourite band gave me a free CD great - if my favourite author gave me a free book even better - but a complete unknown offering their work for free makes some people disinterested (not me, I'm from Yorkshire I live for freebies).

I do love your ethos Amber. I get sick and tired of people saying "I published this book, I know it's not good..." Ahhhh, then don't publish it! You must be happy with your work and if the happiness in contageous all the better.

Lindsay wrote: "There is Personal success, writing a book and being proud of it, and there is Commercial success, actually selling said book to readers.

I think that is where the question lies. By under pricing..."

Ah but the question is do free books reach more people? In theory yes, but I've done a lot of asking around and a lot of people avoid the freebies, preferring cheap books no more than $5.

The difficulty comes in knowing your target audience and what they are looking for. I don't care if I don't make a penny but I want to reach those people who avoid freebies as much as I want the freebie readers.

Perhaps lots of free promotions is the way to cover both angles.

So, is it better to price your books low (say, between $.99 and $2.99) rather than offer them for free? From what I'm seeing here and in other threads, a lot of people snatch up free books right and left and then don't bother reading them. If a reader paid for a book, even at a minimal price, then is he or she more liable to read it? And, as LE suggested, perhaps just offer free promotions every now and then if sales look like they are slowing down.

Cheryl wrote: "From what I'm seeing here and in other threads, a lot of people snatch up free books right and left and then don't bother reading them. If a reader paid for a book, even at a minimal price, then is he or she more liable to read it?"

Yes, absolutely. I have a bunch of free stuff on my Kindle (classics) which I am 99% sure I will never read unless I ever get to the point of having nothing left to read (and since I add books faster than I can read them... well, even I can work out the arithmetic on that). But anything I've paid for, I WILL read eventually.

And I think that's fairly typical. See this blog post by Charlotte English making the same point:

http://www.charlotteenglish.com/2011/...

Thanks for sharing that link, Pauline. It certainly seems to reiterate what I said. It appears that offering books for free, except for short periods of time, might not be as beneficial to authors as one might think. Sure, a lot of people might "buy" them, but, if they don't read them, then how can they recommend them to others?

I certainly don't think you need to give them away, but i think they need to be kept at a low price, especially if they are your first or second book.

Every reader is different, i have downloaded some free ebooks, but only if i think i will actually read them, I don't just download them for the sake of it.

I just think that Authors need to be realistic, You just can't charge the same amount for an ebook as you can for a printed book, and you can't expect people to pay the same for a self published author as they would for an established author they know and trust. Well at least until they have read 1 or 2 books from that author.

Lindsay wrote: "I certainly don't think you need to give them away, but i think they need to be kept at a low price, especially if they are your first or second book.

Every reader is different, i have downloaded..."

I totally see what you mean, Lindsay. And, you're right. Every reader is different. I'm sure there are many of them who do read the free books they download.

As for charging the same amount for an ebook as a printed book, I definitely agree that it would not be a good idea. And, that being said, I don't believe I'm doing that with a price of $2.99 and $4.99. But, the consensus seems to be that a price between $0.99 and $2.99 for an ebook is fairly reasonable and most people would buy them for that price.

Just recently I found a free short story from an author of zombie books. I really liked it and plan to read his book that's priced at $2.99. So it can work. I don't think you have to "sell" your book for free. But giving a free sample of yourself is good. I know ereaders allow you to download samples but sometimes they're only a few pages and aren't as good as short stories or novellas to give a first impression.

Lindsay wrote: "There is Personal success, writing a book and being proud of it, and there is Commercial success, actually selling said book to readers.

I think that is where the question lies. By under pricing..."

I agree! It doesn't matter how much you price it first. I think that it would help with your sales too, at least at first, because a lot of people that read e readers are not looking to buy an ebook for the same price as a printed.