Jane Austen discussion
Who is the 21st Century Janeite?
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Who wants to go back to the 19th century?
Parts of me would love to transport back to 1804. The clothes. The morals of the culture. The balls. But then again, women didn't have the right to vote, rarely owned/inherited property, were forced to marry for money, had to wear corsets... I think the 1960s were probably my time.
I would love to go back, so long as I did not have a tyrranical husband or lived in an uncivilized area(the prairie;D)
I would love to go back for probably a month but not for forever.Women can't vote, no jeans, women were their husbands property etc.
It would be nice to think I could live in that time forever but in reality I know that I could only handle living a month and after that I'd really dislike it.
Karen wrote - 'The clothes. The morals of the culture. The balls. But then again, women didn't have the right to vote, rarely owned/inherited property, were forced to marry for money, had to wear corsets...'Yes i agree with what you say, though may stand the corset if it wasn't too tight and i would be a Lizzie and not be forced to marry as 'only the deepest love will induce me into matrimony' ;)
And i agree Rachel - need to be a nice area ;)
Animalia - i know you what you mean - defo for a month then decide afterwards whether i wanna stay ;)
I would love to visit! The dresses! The houses! The tea! The balls! The manners!But... the lack of hygiene, proper medicine and the slooow communication would irritate me. Plus the complete lack of rights for women, which would drive me insane. So yeah, kind of a visit like Amanda goes on in "Lost in Austen". I don't know if you guys have seen that :)
'The dresses! The houses! The tea! The balls! The manners!' - IKR!!!!!!and i have seen it - wanna find a door like that where you can sneak stuff back from now to then, find a Darcy then stay there - i would so follow her story ;)
(though personally i don't like Lost in Austen that much as it was too messing with the story etc grr (apparently there is a film coming out soon called Austenland...(random side comment)))
Karen wrote: "... The clothes. The morals of the culture. The balls."The no hot/cold running water. The lack of central heating. Using candles only (not even gaslight!)
Like Leonora said, I would love to visit! But otherwise ... :)
Robin wrote: "Like Leonora said, I would love to visit! But otherwise ... :)"Unless I was a really smart engineer/inventor and I knew how to make things, because then I could make all of todays conveniences such as heating, cars etc.
But since I'm not an inventor, a visit would have to suffice. I've never been one to want to stay in another time period. Visiting would be fun but reality would soon kick in.
If I was somehow stuck in the time period I'd probably be a social outcast eccentric who was espousing women's rights and such. I'm not a feminist but somehow I don't think I'd like the idea of women as men's property without any rights... I can hear bluestocking as one of many I'd be considered in that time period.
As I mentioned I could live a month without all of modern technology and I could be a simpering miss but any longer and I think I would give the suffragette movement a run for its money. ;)
Fair enough Robin and Animalia... ;)And the suffragette era would be kinda fun i think :D
I'd love to visit Jane Austen's world, but my ticket would have to be a round trip. I believe I could get used to (and even like) being unplugged from our overly wired world, but the restrictions imposed on women would get old very quickly.
I think I'd like to live back then with all the manners, clothes, etc. I like to imagine living back then, normally friends with Anne Elliot and Elizabeth Bennet. :)
Yes I do know what you mean , strangely that wouldn't be a problem for me I don't think ...And yes!! I would be friends with them too - and Emma ;)
Soph wrote: "Yes I do know what you mean , strangely that wouldn't be a problem for me I don't think ...And yes!! I would be friends with them too - and Emma ;)"
Goodness, not Emma! Sorry, but she's a SNOB!
Elizabeth most definetley though. And Georgiana!
Laurie wrote: "... but the restrictions imposed on women would get old very quickly."I think the lack of indoor plumbing would get old even more quickly!
haha true Tracey - ;)but her intentions our generally good!!
Yes Georgiana would be a great friend not mentioning who her brother is ;)
Only for a visit,having no plumbing,electricity(sp?),or rights would get old quickly.
true - the manners are a defo bonus though!!!
To visit, but not to live. I mean, NO INDOOR PLUMBING! I have trouble with some of the bathrooms in other countries, but can manage for a week. But to never have indoor plumbing again... I'd defintely have to become part of a wealthy household if I were to go back in time:)
Yes wouldn't like to be poor and live then... :S
Definitely to visit for some months and not to live forever because of lack of medical advancement and less opportunities for women. Although it might be a rest from having to think of studies and career, it might get really boring as we all have been bred in the 21st century. But would love to be there and try to find out women like Elizabeth Bennet, Anne Eliot and others...oh and definitely Darcy! :)
Devina - I agree!!! Yes I think it would be a break from all the technology and all the stress of work and all the bad things happening on tv etc... Medical is an issue ;) as I said earlier I would take a big supply of paracetamol ;)
Like everyone else, the medical practices, if you will, would be a concern. But I would like to go back and wear the dresses, go to the dances, and to a reading. Can you imagine being at a dinner party where Jane read aloud parts of her novels?
I would like to visit to learn their needlework, knitting and lacework. But everything else would annoy me after a while especially the lack of women's rights and modern books.
Lately, I'd give just about anything to go back in time. I could adapt to sanitation issues and lack of mod-cons, if only to belong to a society where courtesy was actually the rule rather than the exception. A time when people weren't proud of their ignorance, where if they couldn't use proper grammar or spelling it was because they had not been educated in such things rather than being too lazy to show any evidence of the mandatory education they have received - or, if there were individuals who were content with their lack of awareness or their abuse of the English language, their inability to use apostrophes or a dictionary was not so widely flaunted as it is on the internet. A time when friendship meant more than something achieved by clicking a button, and complete strangers didn't feel the anonymity achieved by communicating over a distance gave them not only the ways and means to say appalling things. A time when art and music were important as more than a means to sell products or get famous. And so on. I know it wasn't all lovely and shiny and happy and safe then ... but I guess my point is it's not lovely and shiny and happy and safe now, either, and it also seems to be uglier and less intelligent and more sordid.
So, yes: I would give up indoor plumbing and modern medicine and air conditioning and my Kindle and laptop if I could wake up tomorrow and find myself in the world of Jane Austen, real or imagined. Like a shot.
Michele wrote: "Like everyone else, the medical practices, if you will, would be a concern. But I would like to go back and wear the dresses, go to the dances, and to a reading. Can you imagine being at a dinner p..."Yes - the dresses! i really want a JA dress - may in the summer get a pattern for it and make one myself! and the balls and dancing! people don't do that anymore and the whole idea of courting etc a romantic guy, austenesque guys are a dying breed!!
wow - that would be utterly amazing!!!!!! now i really wish i was there - to have Jane herself read her novel to you - :O
Usako wrote: "I would like to visit to learn their needlework, knitting and lacework. But everything else would annoy me after a while especially the lack of women's rights and modern books."
YES! i love all the cross stitch (which i do actually) etc :D such a simple and beautiful and what i call a proper time :)
Tracey wrote: "Lately, I'd give just about anything to go back in time. I could adapt to sanitation issues and lack of mod-cons, if only to belong to a society where courtesy was actually the rule rather than th..."
YAY - someone who actually would as i would too! forget all we have now and mostly unnessaccery anyway!!! agree with everything you said!!!
I think it would be less stressful - stress in another way but not as bad and not safe but as you said not safe now - wars, murders everyday, nuclear weapons etc etc etc and the manners was not an option and i love all the manners etc and i really don't think woman's rights would matter to me :) so i totally agree with you and glad there is someone who thinks the same way about this point as i do. :D
I would like to visit that time-period for more than several months but never forever. I might enjoy doing it like Lost in Austen except I would be given a chance to stay there or not.
Lost in Austen was good in that respect It just messed the story around a bit too much for my liking - e.g. Wickham!!!!
I hated Lost in Austen.I couldn't finish it.I thought I was going to love it and I was so disappointed in it.:(
I agree Lillian - I could stay there as long as I was not forced to marry a .. Lets say Collins!!! :O
Soph wrote: "I agree Lillian - I could stay there as long as I was not forced to marry a .. Lets say Collins!!! :O"Or an Elton or Wickham?!
Or a Willoughby (especially of knew his past)
Or a Thorpe, Elliot or well any Austen 'bad guys' or comic guys in Collins case ;)
I keep thinking about Midnight in Paris and out human tendency to romanticize the past. The good old days. The simpler times. The more civilized times. Don't get me wrong. I'd love to visit Jane Austen's world. But for me the key word is visit. I like my 21st-century comforts too much. And I'd definitely have to visit as someone of the upper middle classes at least! I wouldn't want to end up in the downstairs world of Austen.
Laurie wrote: "And I'd definitely have to visit as someone of the upper middle classes at least! I wouldn't want to end up in the downstairs world of Austen"I don't know it would be very tempting to go to an inn and start singing Master of the House. :D
I wouldn't want to go back. I am sure I could not stand the smells, the lack of indoor plumbing, or the way women were treated. I don't have faith things were so much better in the past compared to now. I think humans are humans and have been cruel to eachother since the beginning of mankind. They may have seemed more polite but I would rather have honest contempt than hypocritical kindness. I know it sounds negative but I am actually an optimist. Despite all our failings I believe most people try to improve the way we handle ourselves and we are making progress towards integration and equality.
fair enough - and i suppose it helps that you have found your Darcy! (partly why back then appeals to me!!)
I wouldn't really. I'm half-hispanic, so things would not bode well for me. In a total fantasy and that is not an issue, then YES!. I would also like to be a wealthy woman as I would have more options in life.
I also would hate to have to have such bland food and no indoor plumbing.
i agree Steph! you would just have to write to us all ;)And i do not what you mean but i think i still would go. But, wouldn't want to be poor as that was a hard life! need to be in a situation like the heroines - which isn't a problem as in my head i would be and i would come across a hero too ;)!!!
and i do - oh you know me too well STeph!!
I LOVE the manners, etiquette and clothes of the 19th century. I would love to go back for that but I had better not since someone would try to capture me and enslave me. Not everything about the good ole days were good.
As many others have said I'd like to go for a short while but I don't think I could live there for any extended period of time.The etiquette and manners, the dresses, the beautiful homes are all very appealing. Seeing the English countryside as it was then is also a big draw for me. I would, however, miss indoor plumbing, A/C, and modern medicines. Those are the only things I would miss though as the other issues wouldn't bother me in the least bit (lack of internet, no cars, the way women were treated). It would be wonderful to get away from the ideas and lack of morals, etc in today's world and go back to a time (though NOT perfect) when people seemed to be happier.
Though if I ran into Jeremy Northam's Mr. Knightly he might be able to convince me to stay. ;)
Marjorie wrote: "But WOULD people have been "..."Your point is taken well and that is why I wrote in my previous comment that not everything about the good ole days were good. Many people like to romanticize those times through Jane Austen's books and I do understand why. However, our dear Jane left out a lot about the world during her day. Elizabeth Gaskell was more realistic when describing life during the industrial revolution in England. Imagine referring to the owner of the company you work for as master. As a woman of African descent that jumped out at me big time the first few times I watched BBC North & South. I can finally watch it without cringing every time the word master is used in it. Black people did not bode much better in England than they did in the USA.
Another thing about those times is that people did not bathe everyday like we do today. Imagine the stink.
For the working class the regular work day was much longer back then than it is today.
As for sexual mores go yes, you are right. The illegitimacy rates were high in the 19th century and also prior. Many people whom we admire greatly today like William Shakespeare was illegitimate. Black female slaves were regularly raped by the master of the house. I think the only thing that was different then is that when it came to courting a woman for marriage only in that instance did the male not pressure you for sex. Marrying a virgin was highly valued. By the middle of the 20th century that changed much and men wanted to make sure you are good in bed before popping the question.
I only wish that we could bring back how men and women dressed in the 19th century. I love the regency style dresses. I also love a man in a cravat. It makes a man look so handsome and yes, even sexy. I love that men and women bowed and curtsied. Having good manners all the time is lovely. I love the idea of having calling cards and attending balls. I don't want to bring back females "coming out" at 17. I don't want to bring back females being considered old at 27. I do not want to bring back females not being able to go out alone without an escort, having to ride side saddle, dowries and only males being able to inherit money and property. Also once you were married you were married for life and couldn't get a divorce. So if your husband turned out to be cruel you were stuck with him and you were literally his property.
Oh yes, I would also love to bring back the beautiful homes that were built back then. Even the middle class and lower middle class lived in nicer homes and they sure don't build them like they used to. I am the proud owner of a Queen Anne Victorian circa 1870 with lots of historic detail inside. Building a commercial or residential building was very much like an art form even up until the mid 20 century. The McMansions of today cannot compare and probably will not hold up for centuries.You can take a peek at the inside of my Queen Anne here:
http://www.collarcitybrownstone.com/s...
I know this happens... But I like to let myself think it doesn't and so I do think I doesn't. Shan't have anything ruin it for me. It's not like I can go back... Unfortunately ... ;)
Marjorie wrote: "I think the only thing that was different then is that when it came to courting a woman for marriage only in that instance did the male not pressure you for sex. Marrying a virgin was highly valued..."Very interesting post Marjorie. I don't know who wrote the rules of society back then, but it was very detrimental to females. Our reputation could be ruined for life for the most nonsensical things, but yet men were not put under the same microscope.
I love Marianne's personality in S&S. She is happy and carefree and outwardly loving. She is a completely lovable character. I was so happy with the ending.
I am now reading Captain Wentworth's Diary. How silly for people to assume you are engaged just because you paid a woman attention. The Captain was willing to do the right thing by Louisa if he had to, but goodness imagine ruining your life for such unfair rules of etiquette.
Never the less the books of Jane Austen and other writers like her enable us to escape into a world of love and romance that we can pretend is perfect.
I'm sort of amused that everyone who wants to go back assumes they would be living the life of "the 1 percent" -- beautiful gowns, balls, and country estates. Remember that this was all supported by a vast underclass of servants, that all enterprise of the merchant class was regarded as necessary but its members were treated as invisible, and there was a vast lower class that never got out of the city to even SEE a country estate. Chances are quite good that the circumstances any of us would be born to would be considerably less hospitable than those of an Austen heroine.
What do you think? :)