The Sword and Laser discussion

I'm about halfway through the book, so I may be jumping the gun on this a little bit, but I was wondering if anyone else saw parallels between this book and The Canterbury Tales?

I was thinking about it early on and then the quote from The Poet right before The Priest's Tale kind of sealed the deal for me.

Yes, I believe it was once used as a promotional point for the book and is even mentioned on the wikipedia page.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hyperion...
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First published in 1989, Hyperion has the structure of a frame story, similar to Geoffrey Chaucer's Canterbury Tales and Giovanni Boccaccio's Decameron. The story weaves the interlocking tales of a diverse group of travelers sent on a pilgrimage to the Time Tombs on Hyperion. The travelers have been sent by the Church of the Final Atonement, alternately known as the Shrike Church, and the Hegemony (the government of the human star systems) to make a request of the Shrike. As they progress in their journey, each of the pilgrims tells their tale.

Good to know I'm not the only one. Although next time I might wiki it first.

I read it a few years ago and loved how it followed the framework of The Canterbury Tales. I think Simmons is a big literature geek because so much of his work draws on the classics.

One thing about Simmons that will grow annoying if you read enough of his works is that he is OBSESSED with classic literature to the point that he inserts characters or over the top references to old literature into current stories. Hyperion is no exception as the poet John Keats is very important to the series in many ways. Simmons on the strength of his sci fi and horror stuff is one of my favorite authors but it does get over the top, especially in his later work like Crook Factory and Drood and even Illium and Olympos to some extent since they largely seemed to be his excuse to rewrite the Illiad only on Mars.

It works well in some cases, Hyperion for instance, but begins to become formulaic in later books since he's so predictable in this fashion.

Another thing for new readers. If the writing style of the book turns you off then keep reading. Simmons will shift the narrative style with each pilgrim so if one style particularly annoys you then you just have to get through it until the next. The first tale is told in journal flashback form. A later one will be hard boiled crime noir . . . thats how divergent they get.

And unlike Canterbury tales as I recall (I haven't read it since being forced to in high school, in Old English no less)each tale has meaning to the overall story. You won't get the connections at first but they'll become obvious eventually.

Alex wrote: "Rik, great observation!

It feels eerily like a collection of short stories, written by different authors in a shared world."

I just don't want people to lem this book as this is by far my favorite book of all time.

Speaking of which I find it really bizarre that I find this site, thanks to Geek and Sundry, right at the same time my favorite book is about to be the read of the month.

Serendipity or something and I feel I have to hype this book as much as I can. It truly is the book that opened my world to science fiction. Before it I was very much a sword and horror genre only. I read LOTR, Shanarra, Dragonlance, Stephen King stuff, and various D&D related books but hardly any sci-fi other than some old Star Wars stuff (the original Han Solo novels for instance). I'm probably still more a sword than a laser overall but I'm now open to Sci Fi because of this book.

Well I guess the title of the book (and planet) comes from a Keats poem and I think it had a big influence - so the structure comes from the Canterbury Tales but the inspiration/content comes from Keats

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hyperion...

I like the classical references in Simmons books because it really inspires me to go find out a bit more about the background - Keats poetry is amazing and his story is also fascinating, and I would not have gone off to look at it if not for the book.

Agree that in some other books particularly the Ilium/Olympos this starts to feel a bit formulaic - in that one there is the reference to the Iliad but then he throws in a load of characters and references from Shakespeare (the Tempest) which gets a bit silly....

Wow. I am so not familiar with a lot of classical literature, I never would have known of these parallels (and I've read Hyperion before!). What other classics are referenced, either in tone or theme?

As a more general extension, what "classics" should one read to have a good baseline for general science fiction and fantasy? Do you think knowledge of the classics is required to have a better understanding of science fiction and fantasy? Would a lack of insight into classical references lead to less enjoyment?

Ian wrote: "Well I guess the title of the book (and planet) comes from a Keats poem and I think it had a big influence - so the structure comes from the Canterbury Tales but the inspiration/content comes from ..."

Keats has a BIG influence in this book.

Although some books require a knowledge of the classics in order to understand the book, it's not the case with the Hyperion series. It might add to your reading but not necessary.

terpkristin wrote: "As a more general extension, what "classics" should one read to have a good baseline for general science fiction and fantasy? Do you think knowledge of the classics is required to have a better understanding of science fiction and fantasy? Would a lack of insight into classical references lead to less enjoyment?

For fantasy, I think everyone should read Malory's Le Morte d'Arthur and Alfred, Lord Tennyson's Idylls of the King

I loved the Shakespeare and Proust obsessed moravecs in Ilium (haven't yet read Olympos). With these moravecs, Simmons convinced me to give Proust a shot and I have the Lydia Davis translation of Swann's Way sitting on my To Read pile.

Rik wrote: "Keats has a BIG influence in this book. ..."

Since Keats wrote a poem called 'Hyperion', I would say so.

Oh, someone said that already.

Rik wrote: "And unlike Canterbury tales as I recall...each tale has meaning to the overall story."

I was going to start a thread about this, but it fits here. Does anyone who's read both Hyperion and The Canterbury tales know how much they align? Is it just in terms of structure (and obviously some pilgrimage/religious themes), or are there tighter connections between the stories themselves? I've never read either work, and don't think I'll pick up CT anytime soon, so I'm curious.

Also interesting to note that Wikipedia says, "'Hyperion' is an abandoned epic poem by 19th-century English Romantic poet John Keats."

Judging by this and Drood, I'd say the guy likes not just classics, but unfinished ones.

aldenoneil wrote: "I'd say the guy likes not just classics, but unfinished ones"

That fits seeing as how Canterbury Tales is also unfinished I believe.

Makes me wonder if this story is also unfinished. I guess I will find out when I get to the end.

I read some of the Canterbury Tales in college, and I am going to try to re-read at least some of it while reading Hyperion for S&L. I've forgotten any specifics about the Canterbury Tales, but I remember being struck by how funny some of the pilgrim's tales are, once you get past the language (even with a modern 'translation' it's still very much something of its time).

It's true, as far as I can remember, that the individual stories in Canterbury Tales don't interlock in the way I've heard the stories in Hyperion do. That will be interesting to look at.

The Electronic Literature Foundation has a nice site for the Canterbury Tales, where you can choose from the menu at the left to read it in a modern version, original old English, or have page-to-page or line-to-line comparisons of the two. I'm trying that out.

Tamahome wrote: "Rik wrote: "Keats has a BIG influence in this book. ..."

Since Keats wrote a poem called 'Hyperion', I would say so.

Oh, someone said that already."

It goes well beyond that as you'll discover but I don't want to get into spoilers for those who haven't read it.

Cameron wrote: "aldenoneil wrote: "I'd say the guy likes not just classics, but unfinished ones"

That fits seeing as how Canterbury Tales is also unfinished I believe.

Makes me wonder if this story is also unfin..."

Hyperion is finished as long as you read all four books. If your not aware this is a four book series. The first two books are really just one long book that got cut in two and Hyperion ends on a major cliffhanger. The second two books are sequels to the first series though not direct sequels as they take place hundreds of years later though thanks to wonders of time displacement via space travel and other means there is some carryover of a few characters. If you read all four nearly all of your questions will be answered.

The 2nd book doesn't use the Canterbury structure either.

aldenoneil wrote: "Rik wrote: "And unlike Canterbury tales as I recall...each tale has meaning to the overall story."

I was going to start a thread about this, but it fits here. Does anyone who's read both Hyperion ..."

Its been about 25 years since I read Canterbury Tales in high school and I was forced to try and read them in Old English which may as well be a foreign language. I really can't remember much except it really sucked due to the language problems as more often than not I didn't have the slightest idea what anyone was saying.

But yeah, every tale in Hyperion has meaning to the story. What Hyperion is really about is a brewing intergalactic war and each Pilgrims tale in it will give you background on how and why things have gotten the way they are. Before and in between each tale you'll also be with the pilgrims in real time as they make their journey and you'll eventually find how that fits into everything as well. This is a really hard book to talk about with any kind of brevity.

The Canterbury Tales were actually written in Middle English, not Old English. Beowulf is in Old English. I took a semester of Chaucer in college and it was really tough. At my university, either Old or Middle English would fulfill the foreign language requirements for an English major. Fortunately, my French classes took care of that.

Sandi wrote: "The Canterbury Tales were actually written in Middle English, not Old English. Beowulf is in Old English. I took a semester of Chaucer in college and it was really tough. At my university, either..."

Oh, sorry, I got that wrong, too. It even says "Middle English" as the original text choice on the site I linked to above. My college exposure to Chaucer was a big chunk of a semester class, but not the whole class, and while the professor (who was actually great - I also took an excellent folklore class from him) loved to read the original Middle English out loud, I think the required reading was a book with original and modern versions on facing pages, for which I was thankful.

Rik wrote: "Its been about 25 years since I read Canterbury Tales in high school and I was forced to try and read them in Old English which may as well be a foreign language."

What?

Whan that aprill with his shoures soote
The droghte of march hath perced to the roote,
And bathed every veyne in swich licour
Of which vertu engendred is the flour;

It's pretty much modern English with crappy spelling. I've seen YouTube comments that are harder to decipher.

Sean wrote: "It's pretty much modern English with crappy spelling. I've seen YouTube comments that are harder to decipher."

So true.

Sandi wrote: "Sean wrote: "It's pretty much modern English with crappy spelling. I've seen YouTube comments that are harder to decipher."

So true."

It's not so much the reading of Middle English that's hard but the pronunciation. We had whole sheets on proper pronunciation for vowel and consonant sounds in my Medieval Lit class. But it made Canterbury tales better because you actually got the rhyme scheme

Keep in mind that, read properly, Middle English should always sound like you're gargling a handful of thumbtacks. That description of the pretty April flowers, above, sounds like a threat of violent death when you're doing it right.

I love the fact that it had a Canterbury tales feel and I am kind of disappointed that the second book doesn't have the same structure.

Oh, yes.

This is part of what I find so satisfying about reading a Simmons work. My first introduction to Simmons was Illium and Olympos, and I absolutely loved that I was reading a science fiction novel which nevertheless had things for me, as an English major, to appreciate. In preparation for this book, I also got a copy of Longfellow's (for free in Kindle edition off Amazon!)Hyperion, though I haven't read it yet.

I was considering also getting Canterbury Tales as well, but, like Rik, I had to read it in the original Middle English as well. I think I can probably grok enough of the Canterbury Tales by getting a quick refresher off Wikipedia & TV Tropes.

Cameron wrote: "I'm about halfway through the book, so I may be jumping the gun on this a little bit, but I was wondering if anyone else saw parallels between this book and The Canterbury Tales?

I was thinking ab..."

I'm only on Ch 1 but it seemd like Canterbury (but not as interesting) the minute they discussed the stories and being on pilgrimage.

If Ch 2 is a bad I may skip this book and put Dan Simmons on my don't bother to read list.

@Anne I don't remember Canterbury very well, other than the pure hatred I have for it... You really find it to be more interesting than Hyperion? Even I don't find it THAT bad... Lol