flight paths discussion

Bennet said>>As for the inherent meaning of things, it seems to me that things have inherent value or worth -- such as the worth of a tree within its environment whether I have anything to do with it or not -- but at least for now, given the limitations of understanding and predicament, meaning is mostly interpretive.

so how can we determine what is real?

We can't. I think we can determine the type of reality we wish to affirm, and create that reality, always bearing in mind our limitations and the impossibility of knowing what we don't know.

Good on you Bennet,you found your way just fine. Glad to have you here, and feel free to explore,butt in, reactive and initiate.

You conclude, in your blog>>
If the meaning of life is to make life meaningful, then meaning is made in the process.

To me that would be it, if not for the insistent evidence that, to quote another mantra
>> Life is what happens when you're busy making other plans. <<
Only if we take personal responsability to its extreme and claim that there are no accidents, or conversly,if we believe that but call on God to be the moving agent responable for everything,then we can praise or blame and feel self-righteously innocent.

B, I'm pretty sure we are on the same page here. Three out of the 4 paragraphs in your mesage 5, I could just put "check".

Only with paragraph 3 I am not sure if individual existence has such a subjective element, that the tree in the forest, irregardless of whether it is falling or growing, has no existence outside of the minds of those who can conceive of it.For much of the population, the tree does not exist except in theory. We all live in our own little concentric circles. If I don't want you around, one of two things will happen: you will win me over with persistence and charm; or I will forget about you. You may carry on, but you no longer exist in my world. If your charm is based on sincerity and creative enthusiasm, than likely I will love you forever, support your cause even when it is not my own primary interest, and do everything I can to enhance your well being, even when you are late for dinner. If your charm is an act, when I feel the least bit betrayed, I will forget about you.
In such a way faeries passed out of the realm of so called reality

No matter how we stress reality, the metaphysical aspect is always present. Two sides of the coin, as you say, Bennet. It may be true that all truth can be expressed only in paradox. Where does wishing fit into this, and desire,which is as paradoxical and perverse as it gets...
I think Ellie said it pretty well at the beginning of this particular thread.
Ellie wrote: I think we can determine the type of reality we wish to affirm, and create that reality, always bearing in mind our limitations and the impossibility of knowing what we don't know."

except :-> we might never get to know it all at once, but isnt learning getting to know things that we never knew? And who decides our limitations?

Just to reassure you all...when I say I have a tendency to dismiss people from my world if I feel they have betrayed our shared values, that doesnt mean I would kill them. They may continue to exist in a paralell world, just as there are people having dinner in fancy resteraunts and going to hockey games,driving in cars,shopping or watching television...and as these are all things I dont do, they really don't exist for me.

Faeries are more interesting. Personally, I believe that they still exist, stripped of their glamour and reclassified by science as insects.

When I say "limitations" I mean knowing we have them. Thanks for helping clarify this for me. I don't think we know what they are but to imagine we do would again create a sense of definitive "knowing" I don't think we have.

Maybe it would be clearere (since I could hardly be more obscure!) to say we should have in mind that what we "know" is always provisional. This helps keep us flexible, humble, but still seeking and creating.

Bennet wrote: "You know, Ellie and M., I'm encouraged by admitting all that we don't know. It's reassuring that I'm not expected to have or find all the answers, just to explore and learn, that being the fun part."

yes yes yes
synchronisity alert: this morning I had a conversation with a young man of 27,and after some cross chat about seeking the answers to life's troubling questions, I concluded that for my part the challenge is to be continually receptive to what finds me, and that the decent part of getting older is the realization that I don't need to know EVERYthing

so glad to see the discussions being kept up here.
this is the kind of thing one ponders on an 800 km walk.

I have noticed my view of a place alters with circumstances.
Lovely Najera which I remembered most fondly,enough to return too, seemed a bit seedy this time around...at night actually a bit scary. It has gone on,developing in a rather sad way, the whole time I was gone.

I will get back to this thread next session!
Really!

Reality is centered in our centre,as we move it changes with us.
The important thing is the maintain our appreciation!

my reality has just relocated again,back in Canada
trying to keep the appreciation foremost

where is everyone ?

Sorry. My health continues to be only so-so.

I'm indulging in a lot of comfort reading, rereading Agatha Christie. I feel guilty but am doing it anyway. I should be finishing Little Red Chairs (not to mention Demons).

I'm in the home stretch at work (don't know yet if I'm working the summer). Mother's Day was lovely. Otherwise, life is boringly the same.

My reality is with reading and writing. And my kids. Everything else can change (I think: although I'm so a New Yorker, I don't know about that!)

How is everyone else?

I've also been under the weather this past week with a head/chest/throat cold. I'm starting to feel more myself again now.

I've got a week off of work but haven't done anything yet, due to this cold. I've mainly been curled up on the couch, reading or napping.

Ellie, I hope you start to feel better soon and hope your summer goes as you wish with work (to work or not to work). Keep reading the comfort reads. They help healing. :D

This afternoon is supposed to be dry and I seem to be feeling stronger today. If this continues, I may try a short walk. I would like to get out again.
I've also got to clean this house a bit while I'm off this week.

Hope you both are feeling better, Ellie and Petra. Its so crucial to rest and its such a comfort to read whatever we want.
I felt well enough for a few days and then pushed it too much, back with same symptoms plus now the cough. Sleep!
Because it wasn't really feasible to bring all the books I was reading with me when I went to Vancouver, I chose a new book to take with me that looked fun. This was Y by Marjorie Celina. Perfect choice, By the time I was reunited with all my current reading, I had four books 3/4 read plus the book of poems by Dennis Cooley that I am stalled on halfway thru
plus the weather, so shifty!
hence, I am also feeling discombobulated as well as sick. Attempting to feel grateful for everyday

Good morning! I'm feeling a lot better, thank you. The cough is the hardest part to shake off and it's almost gone.
I've read Y. I can't say I remember too much about it but my review says I liked it. LOL!
I'm home this week. The weather has been dismal for this time of year but I need to clean anyway, so have been doing that. A couple of hours each day of deep cleaning (walls, moving furniture, etc). Things are starting to look a bit better already.
I've also been cooking up some better meals. Yum! I tried a pineapple beef yesterday and it turned out great. Today will be a slow roasted pork shoulder roast.
I've been reading some light books from my shelves. I didn't like The Blind Contessa's New Machine and really enjoyed Whistling Past the Graveyard.
I'm currently reading a rather dated book called The L-Shaped Room. It's got racist elements (very obvious ones) that truly date this book. I'm glad those sentiments are gone from our society. We've got a ways to go but this book shows how far we've come, so that's good. The protagonist is a snide thing. Yet, the storyline of a 27-year old unmarried woman, living with her father, who finds herself pregnant and gets kicked out of home for being a "tart" is interesting. She's got a lot to learn about life and needs to do it quickly. It's really a story of its time (set in the late 50s).

Ellie, Magdelanye, and Petra: I hope you are all feeling better soon. It is miserable when the cough persists as it can be so tiring.
I have been knitting Christmas gifts for daughters and grandchildren in between setting up an herb garden, going to the gym and, of course, reading.
I finally won a goodreads book - The Essex Serpent - and just finished reading it. It was well written with lovely long sentences echoing the Victorian period in which it is set. She conveys the formality of the Victorian period but also shows the undercurrent of feelings and emotions that are universal.
I also finished The Nightingale Won't Let You Sleep which is a beautiful look at consequences of seemingly simple actions, set primarily in a no-man land between Turkish and Greek territories.
I am reading an older book An African Millionaire that is about a hapless millionaire who is duped over and over again by the enterprising conman Colonel Clay. Great fun to try an anticipate if the Colonel is unfolding another scheme or not as the African Millionaire travels throughout Europe. The author is Grant Allen who was born in 1848 in what is now Kingston, Ontario.

Thanks MaryAnne for your empathy. It really is tiring, being I'll. You sound fairly organized :-). I cant imagine past this week and here you are preparing for Christmas!

Petra, you must be better! Just reading your list of cleaning chores exhausted me. I am doing my best to keep up with basic upkeep. Today I washed the outside of the fridge and did the dishes, vacuumed the study. That called for a nap! I love your vitality and your culinary ambition.
I remember reading the L shaped room when I was about 15 and feeling obligated to hide it from my mother, who once ripped up a Jalna book I was reading, because of the cover. I wasn't terribly impressed with the writing but what did I know
Ellie sure hope you're doing better. Your review of the Fish book inspired me to continue. I was stuck on page 18, then just skipped it for now and plunged on. It seems I'm unclear about objects. Do you have your own copy?
I like the exercises. I did them...well I didn't go as far as a 100 word sentence, but I was well on my way. And then I kinda got it, what he was on about form So I'm now excited to read on.

The house is clean.....top to bottom! I really dislike this sort of cleaning and really need to come up with a schedule or plan to break it down into smaller segments.

Magdelanye, I'm feeling a whole lot better. Still a tiny, tiny bit of congestion in the lungs that makes me cough occasionally. I hope that's gone soon.

I'm really enjoying The L-Shaped Room. It started out iffy for me as the protagonist was kind of whiney and spoiled, it seemed, for a 27-year old. But I can see now that the author meant for this to be the point. She's got a lot to learn and she's finding her way.
This story reminds me of The Millstone, although I think The Millstone was more introspective. It's been ages since I've read it, though, so I may be mistaken on that.

I'm hoping to relax and enjoy the next two days before going back to work. It's a beautiful weekend (for once). Perhaps some yard work is in order?

This seems like the most appropriate spot to announce that I've taken a room in a house with 3 other women. Not a perfect solution but may be perfect for now. The rent includes Wi-Fi and there's heat included.
The 2 women I've already met seem really interesting and nice.
And then there's the location by a small lake and a rock face.
Yes it's the synchronicity place. Thanks for all the supportive wishes.
And next week the location of my reality will shift

once more with feeling: have found a cabin, very small but situated over a magnificent view and im moving on saturday!

Congratulations Magdelanye!! Enjoy the view! :)

A cabin sounds delightful! Enjoy the experience, Magdelanye.

When I was about 10, a family friend moved into a cabin on a lake. I loved visiting there. Regardless the season, it always felt so cozy and I loved the trees around it. There was always a fresh smell coming through the windows.
It's a great memory. I hope you make some that are just as special. A view is a relaxing thing to witness.

Congrats! Sending positive thoughts your way!

Thanks Ellie Petra and Megan!
Im too excited

Glad you found a place to get excited about. Hope you have sunshine for the move on Saturday.

Thanks Mary Anne.theres a chance!
Megan i am loving Motherhood

@Magdelanye I'm glad I'm not alone! I look forward to hearing your review. :)

It seems today that the centre of reality is Notre Dame cathedral.
Fighting despair, exacerbated by another very sad event which was my first best friend's husband died on Sunday.
He was a wonderful man.

Magdelanye, I'm so sorry to hear this sad, sad news. The loss of a loved one is devastating. Hugs to his family and to you. My condolences to all.

@ Magdelanye - It is hard to lose friends as we get older as good friends are hard to make.

Thanks Petra and Mary Anne. Old friends are irreplacable. I had a nice long talk Sharyn...her 3 kids and 15 grandkids are all with her and she will be ok but realistically we are facing the end when it seems only yesterday we were walking home from school

Magdelanye--I just read your post. I am so sorry about your loss (and your friend's). Loss is so difficult to bear, especially of dear friends.

Thanks Ellie
Old friends have gotten old! Sol was a great guy.
Unfortunately our paths diveraged as he and Sharyn got preoccupied with grandkids and i left Vancouver. Curiously, his presence has become very vivid as he carries on to the next phase.

@Magdelanye, I'm so sorry to hear this. Sending you positive vibes.

thanks Megan.
need all the positive vibes i can accrue.

Some words of encouragement for Ellie changing the locus of her reality!

Thank you Magdelanye: only 5 1/2 teaching days left. I'm a little nervous but mostly excited. I'll miss the kids but it will be so good to finally have time. I feel like my life is beginning again!

Ellie, I've been thinking of you this week as the school year ends. I believe you'll be very happy.

Thank you Petra.

I had the most wonderful experience last night. One of my friends (with my daughter's help) threw me a retirement party. I loved it--I was touched by how many people came, all people I loved and that apparently care about me as well. Words cannot express how moved I was and what a great time I had (except when I had to give a speech--that would have been better if I'd prepared--the party was a surprise--and I stumbled through it but hopefully I expressed how grateful I was to everyone).

It was one of the most special experiences of my life, after the birth of my children and my wedding. I've only rarely recognized how cared about I am, how my life is enriched by so many people.

I wanted to share this experience with all of you because you're all also special to me!

Ellie, that's lovely. I'm so glad this surprise came to be. I knew you'd be missed and were much loved. You're a special person. It's wonderful that your friends (and daughter) could show you the wonderful work you did and how you contributed to many special moments over the years.
You are loved & appreciated. I'm so glad you had the experience of this party.

Petra put it beautifully
i can only add how much youve enriched this group right from the beginning.
Tears are OK!

So happy to be in this group with such wonderful people. You have certainly enriched my life, and not only with books.

Is this it Ellie? The last day of that large chunk of your life.
May you thrive in your new freedom

I'm kind of immobilized with all the events beginning June 9.
Yesterday and today a new threat: wildfire on the other side of the ridge. The water bombers have been hard at it but its been very noisy and scary.

So I have fallen behind again in my task to get my currently reading list to reflect realty.

Ellie, tomorrow will be so different. Relax now & give a good think about what *you* want.

Magdelanye, stay safe. I hope they put the fire out quickly.

I'm in a reading slump. I don't seem to pick up my book. I'm enjoying it and don't feel any desire to put it down.....but I'm still not reading. Starting something else isn't enticing either. Hope this passes quickly. I want to get back my story.

Petra, perhaps an outrageous thriller would perk you up as it did me.
I'm recommending The Sudden Appearance of Hope by Claire North

I hope the fire is out !
the planes have ceased for a bit.
hard to know whether to pack up just in case
some folks have even left.
Its on the news now.

That must be the Cecil Hill fire. Oh dear. Have a bag packed. A few homes have been given their evacuation notices, I believe. Do you have a quick way out, Magdelanye? Please let me know there's a plan. Stay safe.

And thank you for the book recommendation. I always enjoy the books your recommend.

It's now on my "for later" shelf at the library. Thanks again, Magdelanye.

I hope the fire is out and you are safe!

It's hard to believe but today is the day. I started to give a good-bye speech to the students yesterday but they jumped up as soon as I started and all came and hugged me and thanked me and I was so touched and moved. I will miss them too.

Of course, not enough to want to stay!

Even my "adversary" (my boss) gave me a good-bye card and a small gift which was very nice of her.

So today is a half-day for the students. I have one rush job to take care of and then I'm actually finished working for the day and just have to wait until 2:50. Amazing.

I'm so excited (and still a little nervous).

Just reading this. You must be so close to finishing now, Ellie.
It's perfectly natural to be nervous. It's a big change to your everyday life. But things will adjust and your new life will feel natural in no time at all.
Savor every moment of this day. It's a special one.