Lush Library discussion

Sorry I'm a little late putting the spoiler thread up! I know a couple of you have finished now, so I'd best get this up and get the discussion rolling :)

I've not read anything tonight as got an exam tomorrow, but I hope to really get stuck in this weekend.

So, what did you think of Melanie Benjamin's interpretation of events? Did you find it fair and convincing? Were there any surprises? Or parts you weren't comfortable with? Have your opinions on Alice and Mr Dodgson changed at all from how you pictured them before? Did you recognise characters in Alice in Wonderland that had been based on the real-life figures in Alice Liddell's life?

I'll think of some in-depth questions when I've finished the book! ... and I think I'll try not to read any comments until I've come to the end. Please though add your thoughts on as they come to you. x

It wasn't what I was expecting! but I knew nothing about Alice and Dodgson before this.
The elements of grooming were quite shocking to read at times I thought, and the way Alice was treated as though she was the problem and not a victim was awful although I'm sure realistic of the time.
There were parts when I really disliked most of the characters in the book, including Alice but ultimately they were all quite damaged in one way or another.
Sorry this is a jumble of thoughts, I will have a think about what I'm actually trying to say and hopefully be a little clearer.

I liked it. There are parts which made me feel very uncomfortable, but that's not necessarily a bad thing as I like books which provoke any sort of emotional reaction, even an uncomfortable one. My edition had a couple of author's notes at the back which explained which bits were fact and which she made up from little clues left by Alice and Dodgson. She made it sound quite convincing, but I think most readers would be best to treat this as fiction, as she doesn't have much actual proof for most of the events in the book.

I loved Leopold and was so upset when he was killed off in such a cursory way. I guess that's the trouble with "faction"; the author isn't free to give her characters happy endings and sometimes their stories aren't tied up neatly for us.

Oh I loved it! and I think that the whole sensitive 'was Dodgson a paedophile or not' issue was handled very carefully. I'm glad that by the end, as the reader we are still none the wiser, it wouldn't have been fair on his memory to have been written any other way. Meticulous research has been done, most of the events in the book happened, dates are all accurate. I've been doing some googling! I'd read the basics of the Dodgson/Alice story before but I've just enjoyed reading the story here in depth and surprised how much detail here was true - and the void areas of history made completely plausible.

Even if you had no interest in Alice in Wonderland, it's a well written novel with gorgeous prose in places. I'll definitely read Melanie Benjamin's book The Autobiography of Mrs Tom Thumb, I can rely on it being a pleasure to read and well researched.

I did find Alice difficult to like. She seemed a little unfeeling to me and I hated the derisory way that she treated the servants, not even allowing them their own name. It's documented that the real Alice was rather harsh to her staff, but I guess that was the Victorian "old money" way.

If anyone has any questions for Melanie Benjamin I can pass them on as I'll be emailing her back soon. Also message me if you would like a signed book plate, as she kindly offered to send me some.

I've read the original Alice in Wonderland and through the Looking Glass. I've also read biographical info on carroll and I appreciate Benjamin's novel, however, Alice wasn't Alice in Wonderland anymore :(
Everyone loves the fantasy of alice's dream. That who people in the novel fall in love with, but when she reaches old age, she is a different person all together and I missed the terribly whimsical nature of the Alice character. In tim burton's production of Alice in wonderland ( which should have been titled through the Looking Glass) Alice was still relatable to children. Knew the right words to say to the mad hatter ( who I believe to be dogsdon) but in Benjamin's portrayal she couldn't even equally love all her children. One would think that she would've been a much more involved mother that didn't follow in her own mother's footsteps when it came to appearances. despite her tribulations in romantic affairs why did Alice turn into such a tragic character?? I was really displeased. She is supposdd to be the hero, the rebel, the icon!

I see what you mean Sara. I was a bit disappointed that Alice was not the whimsical, heroine that I wanted her to be. From all I've read about the real Alice though, Alice I Have Been is very true to her character. Have you watched the film Dennis Potter's Dreamchild? I think it was made in the 80s, it's based on relationship between Alice and Charles Dodgson, and Alice as an elderly lady haunted by the Wonderland characters ... the film also showed her as a cantankerous old lady, it was a well researched film, as is this book. Although the film did change more details and irritatingly portrayed Dodgson as a man in his 50s, when at the time of befriending the young Alice, he was only in his 20s.

I think Alice Hargreaves was probably typical of Victorian high society in her snobbery and distance with her own children .... but yep I wanted the older Alice to retain some of the vibrancy she had as a child and young woman, but that's not a criticism to the book.

I will definitely look into that film.
Thinking of the comment based on alice's transition from childhood to adulthood, I can see how her resilience to be that very character was so profound. Expectations are also deadly poison for the one expecting and the expected.

Yes I agree, I think there must have been a lot of expectation put on Alice and that's why she tried to distance herself so much from it. I was disappointed though that she never sat down and read the book for all those years.

Dreamchild isn't available anymore except on video, but I was pleased to find it on youtube :)

As a side note I liked that Tim Burton combined the books to make his film - it made it fresh for me.

As for the book I thought it was a shame that the author chose to make it seem like Alice's life was so tainted by the past that she couldn't live in the present until it was too late. She lost so many people that she loved when they were young. Even with the prince she was scared of losing him and it didn't come as a surprise when he told her his mother's wishes - she didn't even fight for him. From reading about it after the book I think the author probably made Alice his love interest to add to the book.

Yep I agree Kirsty that Prince Leopold was probably not really the love interest that the book portrayed, but he was a close friend and had been at Oxford University at the time that Alice was living there. I don't think there is much documented about her friendship with him, except that he gave her a brooch which she wore on her wedding day.

Also that they named their children after each other. They must have been very good friends at least, but I think it was possibly more. It's a shame she didn't fight for him like you said Kirsty, but he didn't fight for her either. I really enjoyed this book again I didn't think I would lol. I think I identified with Alice as I also have 3 boys. *Will come back to this*