Mike: Excellent point on the message of BREXIT as perceived in Moscow. The dissolution of the EU benefits Putin and leaves Europe, again, caught between Germany and Russia.

Indeed, I think we need to think historically and strategically. The debate in Britain has been of a low quality, with quarrels about how much of our budget contribution comes back, the effect of Brexit on the health service etc. This all matters, but the stakes are far, far higher than that.

thanks for the perspective. the situation is not getting as much attention as it deserves over here. the quarreling over budget contributions reminds me of trump's hints about leaving NATO for similar reasons. there are probably some fair points to be made in that regard, but as you point out, there's a lot more to consider. the 'repatriation' sounds like it would be a real disaster, for instance.

and it sounds like the success of the EU could be part of its undoing. it's probably hard for the average person after a long period of relative peace to imagine the breakout of war or the rise of fascist states. no question putin would welcome a 'leave' vote.

Thank you milady! Knowledge accumulated through age. A bit like mildew.

Mike, I think that is quite a shrewd insight - yes, after two generations of peace and a fairly smooth transition to democracy in southern and eastern Europe, there's no counterfactual. People just aren't asking what could have happened, and still might.

Well said Mike

Paul wrote: "Well said Mike"

Thanks Paul

Now also on the VoxEurop site
http://www.voxeurop.eu/en/content/art...

Looking at some of the comments people have left below it, I don't feel very confident about the standard of the debate.

Depressing, Mike.